You Know a Spiritual Coward

by AlanF 78 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AlanF

  You're right about the policy of enforcement, Danny. Proverbs 17:15 says about such conduct:

  "Anyone pronouncing the wicked one righteous and anyone pronouncing the righteous one wicked-even both of them are something detestable to Jehovah."

  When someone pronounces another wicked by using various Scriptures to disfellowship and shun him, he is saying that his opinions are infallible, since he is taking the judgment seat of God to himself. That is exactly what people like You Know and JW leaders do.

  Thanks for the kudos, JT and teejay. Great points, Lionel.

  Excellent quote, refiners fire! "God caused Russell to learn", not "Russell learned from the Bible". Big, big difference. The Society capitalizes on the ambiguity of language to speak out of both sides of its mouth at the same time on this issue. The Macmillan quote is valid because his book was reviewed by Nathan Knorr and had the official approval of the Society. In fact, I hear tell that it was Knorr who asked Macmillan to write the book for propaganda purposes, so it certainly fully reflected Watchtower views. That's an interesting point about Fred Franz lying to a worldly court, except that one would expect the lie to go the other way. I mean, a worldly court would obviously consider a statement like "Jehovah is the editor" to be from a madman.

  As for you Rexie, you poor braindead Fundy, the only handle I've ever used on this board is the one you see in front of you. My email is always open and I often post my phone number. You, on the other hand, are a fucking hypocrite because, while you make false insinuations about me, you hide behind an anonymous handle. Likely you're judging others by yourself. But hypocrisy is par for the course for Fucked Up Fundies, no?

  AlanF
• 

  GoldDustWoman

  he foretold today’s superpower rivalry and showed that it will soon end in a way that neither one suspects

  As someone that had to hear the ole “King of the North” (Soviet Union) and “ King of the South”(USA) predictions/lectures, through the years, from my Father, maybe the WTS wasn’t so far off after all. Who would of thought in 1987 that 1989 would bring the collapse of the Soviet Union and their system of extreme socialism (one of my pet peeves is when someone calls them “Communists”. They were never able to progress to that form of “government” and no true communist government has ever existed anywhere, at any time, ever). When rivalry ended, if it has, indeed, ended, it did in a way that most of us would have never thought. I’m sure most of us had visions of 20 mega ton nuclear warheads and craters the size of Lake Michigan.

  So, back to the North and South tales of my youth.

  One of my hobbies back in the 1980’s was reading and learning about the Soviet Union. Mainly concentrating on the Khrushchev and Brezhnev years. Anyone with half a brain would have realize that their economic system, and infrastructure, was nothing more than a house of cards (I could really go into a rant about the CIA on this one, but I will control myself). So, when the whole sha-bang fell apart I was certainly NOT surprised. However, most people sure seemed to be.

  My poor JW Dad, supported by the WT, predicting the fall of the one of the superpowers. They were correct, in part, I suppose. Too bad the wrong King fell.

  GDW
• 

  ballistic

  All the proof you need is to grow up in the watchtower. "You Know" that all your spiritual food is coming from Jehovah.
• 

  Earnest

  Alan,

  It is an easy thing to belittle a man when you know that the great majority will endorse your view whether it is true or not.

  Whether or not I agree with what You Know has to say I think his willingness to support his beliefs on a board such as this has nothing of cowardice about it.

  As regards the information you presented I would just comment on your reference to Fred Franz's cross-examination in the Olin Moyle court case of 1943. This has often been used to support the accusation that JW believe the WT is inspired in the biblical sense but the quotation is selective and Franz goes on to make quite clear that is not what he is claiming. The WT is often accused of selective quotation. Beware the beam in your own eye, brother.

  Earnest
• 

  Richie

  Alan...
  Excellent post! Of course YouKnow wouldn't know what to say except that he will say nothing to your perfect essay. In fact your "revelation" is just the tip of the iceberg - and I have a feeling that perhaps YouKnow may have read part of your post, then he got scared (because he himself started to "doubt" the truth) and buried his head in the sand like most JW's when you confront them with real "truth"...

  Richie :*)
• 

  Lionel_P_Hartley

  Earnest,

  Your central accusation is not true regarding YK. He has a long history of lying and ignoring substantive arguments. For example, in another thread I found an example that I believe addresses YK's specific challenge as to what a false prophet is. So far I have seen no response. Maybe he missed it - but after several years of tangling with this individual it's clear he's a liar, a coward, a fanatic, a zealot and possibly not even a JW at all, at least by the normal JW measures. He seems to be at the lunatic fringe of JW-dom and is likely avoided by mothers with small children and those who tend to the KH plants.

  As for Olin Moyle - rather than making unspecifc charges, why not provide the actual evidence. Presumably you have it, yes? Post it then, please. What I mean, is the continuation of Franz's examination that supports your statements.

  The difference between you and Alan is that Alan actually provides some substance. If he is quoting out of context then have the decency to prove it. Can you?

  LPH
• 

  Duncan

  Alan

  Excellent. Enjoyable read, too; well written.

  Just don't go expecting any reasoned, point-by-point rebuttal by Unoh any time soon though, okay?

  Regards

  Duncan.
• 

  JT

  Earnest

  says:--It is an easy thing to belittle a man
  -------------

  While I fully agree with you personal attacks in my view are useless in any type of dialog when you don't even know the other person and even if one does --it only weakens the issue on the table

  so my question is do you consider it to be belittling a man or woman to challenge their claims?

  if you hang around for awhile you will perhaps have the opportunity that many of us have had in observing YK post-- many of his post and especially his Biblical interpertation post fly right in the face of what he as a JW is suppose to beleive and teach-

  many of his comments and actions have gotten some on this board DFed for apostatasy

  as i mentioned i agree that to attack a person is wrong,

  but to address,challenge,attack whatever one perfers to call it

  on a issue is perfectly fine especially if one can document ones statement for others to ref

  while the point you made about Franz court case is often ref- the problem is -- It is only one-- in many wt ref that show that the wt stakes a claim to being Specially directed by god himself

  Alan listed Franz comment along with many other comments over the years to show that wt wants to enjoy a status far above just a group of guys doing Bible commentary and publishing it

  in fact i have often stated that the wt would have been just ok if they had stuck with Bible commentary like they started out doing in russells day- in fact in early times the wt encouraged it's readers to
  question and challenge what it published

  then somewhere along the way russell/the watchtower made a decision to move over from merley bible students publishing thier findings to WE ARE THE ONLY CHANNEL TO GOD ON EARTH FOR MANKIND
  and from that day down till tonight is where they made and continue to make their biggest mistake

  you can't have your cake and eat it to---- and that is the problem with the org

  they want and DEMAND all the respect of bible characters and want none of the responsibilites and we are just holding their feet to the fire on the things thAT they have published and said--

  just my 2
• 

  JT

  tj says:

  The /You Know we've all come to despise was stripped away and I was touched, I don't mind saying. Alas, that was the only time I cared for the man and have avoided him since.
  --------------

  I enjoyed your post- i don;t know about how many of us "Despise" him per say- i know i don't -- in fact i feel sorry for the dude--

  I too recall that post or one like that where he revealed his love of Music and i told my wife how here is a guy who could perhaps be playing at the NY MET- or working in some branch of the music industry like a Clive Davis or something

  i recall growing up reading the life exp of jw who gave up cool jobs like that -playing in orchuestra and being balleria and so forth and instead they WOULD WAIT TILL THE NEW ORDER TO PURSUE thier dreams

  and here we have another person like many of us with that "Coupon" in our pocket never taking the time to turn it over and see it said :

  "Not Redeemble"

  I figure YK may be what 30=40-50 yrears old and all this time he has his dreams on hold this guy hopes are to be apart of the 144,000, who will rule with christ,etc
  and in the end he will wasted his entire life running after a pipe dream

  true he tries hard to defend his faith which is his right and no more would i want to take away the right of a member of the Flat Earth Society would i want to take away his

  if anything i along with many i'm sure don't despise him , but actually feel sorry for the guy- and why well after all is said and done he can't change the claims that the wt has made and continue to make

  as one person put it - a jw is required to acrobatic jumps to try and make the teachings of the wt not sound silly-

  as i mentioned now jw can still have a Relationhip thier god if they have at least "15 Min" of time to turn in

  how sad to be apart of such an outfit as that- where one's relationship with god has been reduced to 15 min

  how sad

  cause He
• 

  waiting

  Hello Ernest,

  Welcome to our forum, brother.

  As regards the information you presented I would just comment on your reference to Fred Franz's cross-examination in the Olin Moyle court case of 1943. This has often been used to support the accusation that JW believe the WT is inspired in the biblical sense but the quotation is selective and Franz goes on to make quite clear that is not what he is claiming. The WT is often accused of selective quotation. Beware the beam in your own eye, brother.

  Please present your quotes of the Olin Moyle court case in total here to repudiate Alan's comments. I've read them also, and I don't remember Franz capitulating on Jehovah's authorship issue.

  I look forward to your backing up your comment with entire dialog - so that we can reason with no selective quotations.

  waiting