You Know a Spiritual Coward

by AlanF 78 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Lionel_P_Hartley

  YK,

  You apparently missed my post on Rutherford's cimments in Light II. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18800&site=3

  Your trick is to make the challenge so specific that you think it cannot be met. But that's all it is - a trick. And a failed one at that since the leaders have a teaching which has no Biblical support -that they are God's sole channel of communication with mankind and, as Rutherford noted, they are aware of things going on in Heaven.

  Your argument might make a small amount of sense if the WTS didn't loudly condemn other religions for doing what they do on the basis of Deut. 18.

  The actions of the GB demonstrate that the WTS believes that they are being run by God directly from Heaven. That's why they DF people for disagreeing. It's not for causing divisions - it's for believeing differently and expressing those beliefs. Look at the elders manual.

  But, all in all, it's a moot point. Your leaders are out and out liars who claim to speak for God and act as if they do speak for a vengeful God. Not only that, they have a 100% failure rate.

  Ok, let's not call them false prophets. Let's call them deluded lying buffoons. Does that make you feel better?

  Face it, man - there is no way on earth that you can provide a shred of evidence that the WTS is "God's sole channel of communication with mankind." Can you do that much? If they are than God sure doesn't have much of a message - except that he wants his name, Jehovah, associated with the some of the craziest religious notions and predictions ever invented. Every single one of which has either failed or is inthe process of failing.

  How many angels can sit on the head of a pin, Bobby? That's an easier thing to do than to defend the WTS.

  Not to worry old thing - only 12 years to 2014.

  LPH LOL
• 

  You Know

  If you meant any word about being in a personal relationship with Jehovah. Should you not be more concerned about his view of the WTBS? I think it is the only thing that matter's.

  THAT'S THE POINT! YOU GOT IT! The legal opinions and judicial decisions of Jehovah are the only thing that matters. The pathetic thing is that in your hubris, you presumptuosly imagine that the fault-finding and accusations of apostates are the very judgments of Jehovah. That is truly laughable. I well know that apostates are absolutely cluless about how Jehovah intends to deal with his erring people in the future. Since you have no part with us as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, the truth concerning how God purposes to deal with his own is really none of your business anyway. For that reason I am quite content to let you steep in your ignorance until such time as Jehovah's judgments are unveiled. / You Know
• 

  dubla

  yk-

  just curious about this quote:

  However, that is not my situation at all. Jehovah is my personal God. He is my spiritual Father in a way that you have never experienced. Those of us who actually have a birth from God know that our relationship with Jehovah and Christ did not originate through the Watchtower and is not dependent upon the Watchtower Society. The Watchtower is only a periphery agency and is not the determining factor in our spiritual lives. I am, after all, one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and not a Watchtowerite as some men are.

  you obviously have a very different view about what it means to be one of "jehovahs witnesses" than most active jws do.......since you do not follow the watchtower 100%, does this mean you also feel you are exempted from mandatory activities such as door-to-door ministry, meeting attendance, etc? you obviously do not think the watchtower is correct 100% of the time, so do you follow the watchtower "rules", such as your conduct, what music you listen to, what movies you see, etc?

  aa
• 

  Lionel_P_Hartley

  YK,

  The legal opinions and judicial decisions of Jehovah are the only thing that matters.

  And, we can determine his standards from the Bible. Those standards condemn liars and false prophets. What escapes you is that the Bible is there for all mankind - not just JWs. It is there to enable one to determine truth from falsehood.

  You demonstrated how JWs have rejected the Bible in favor of alien teachings emanating from an organization that claims to speak for God, and which has explicitly claimed that the Bible is useless without that organization. God's channel is actually a circular tube with the GB shouting down one end and listening at the other.

  LPH
• 

  Abaddon

  YK: Ah, so inspired only means inspired when it means inspired, otherwise it means inspired!

  You really, like really, should read 1984 (George Orwell) or if you've read it re-read it.

  The Chinese have a proverb "Every man secretly loves the smell of his own farts". You however, seem to have taken to bottling them.

  Happy New Year.

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
• 

  You Know

  dubula:

  does this mean you also feel you are exempted from mandatory activities such as door-to-door ministry, meeting attendance, etc?

  No. I am not exempt from those things because those are not the mere commands of men. I want to do God's will. And I know that God wants me to preach about his kingdom and meet with my brothers, so that's why I do it.

  you obviously do not think the watchtower is correct 100% of the time, so do you follow the watchtower "rules", such as your conduct, what music you listen to, what movies you see, etc?

  It is not a matter of being correct or not. My conscience is bound with God. The Watchtower, again, only helps in training our God-given conscience. After all, when we have a guilty conscience our guilt is towards God not men. I respect the Watchtower because I feel that God is using them to accomplish a certain phase of his purpose. And they are a source of continual strength and encouragment for me. Also, I am eternally gratful for their having been instrumental in introducing me to Jehovah.

  How might I explain this? My relationship to the Watchtower and Jehovah has frequently been illustrated my others of my brothers in terms of the family. Being a son in a family, I deeply love and respect both my parents even though I know that they are far from always being right. In a spiritual sense Jehovah is our Father and the organization has been likened to our mother. Of course, Jehovah is not prone to error like our human parents, but as in a child's relationship to his parents, there are times when, say the mother, is perhaps more strict then the father. In such instances, the mother may forbid a certain activity and the child goes to the father to appeal mom's decision. In some cases the father may grant permission to the son, with the caveat: "Don't tell your mother I said you could son." That's kinda sorta what we are talking about. Hope that helps
  / You Know
• 

  JT

  How many of you think that if YK said the following he would not be DF for being an Apostate?

  ---------
  How might I explain this? My relationship to the Watchtower and Jehovah has frequently been illustrated my others of my brothers in terms of the family. Being a son in a family, I deeply love and respect both my parents even though I know that they are far from always being right. In a spiritual sense Jehovah is our Father and the organization has been likened to our mother. Of course, Jehovah is not prone to error like our human parents, but as in a child's relationship to his parents, there are times when, say the mother, is perhaps more strict then the father. In such instances, the mother may forbid a certain activity and the child goes to the father to appeal mom's decision. In some cases the father may grant permission to the son, with the caveat: "Don't tell your mother I said you could son." That's kinda sorta what we are talking about. Hope that helps
  / You Know
  _--------------

  this man is posting some damning stuffing-

  There is no one on the Service Desk at Patterson who would buy YK appeal that he is Exempt from following org directions by saying
  to the seervice desk

  "yes you are like the mother and i know you told me not to hang out with the apostates on thier sites and dialog with them, but i talked to daddy jah and he told me it was ok for me to do it since i'm one of his annointed sons"

  if there are any on this site who have served as elders can you see a committee in the back of the hall or an appeal committee who would allow a jw to supersede the Mother org and state the reason that they are doing "Whatever" it may be is due to having the father himself grant them exemption?

  this is why it is so important for NONJW to see and read this--

  it is only when a jw is pushed to the wall does it really come out just how foolish their explanations of Offical church positions are

  I love it when he post this stuff

  we could not make up stuff this good about jw
• 

  You Know

  There is no one on the Service Desk at Patterson who would buy YK appeal that he is Exempt from following org directions by saying
  to the seervice desk

  It doesn't matter if they buy it or not. That's the point. Paul spoke of this very scenario, which of course you are utterly ignorant of the spiritual ramifications of such in my case, where he wrote: Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by you or by a human tribunal. Even I do not examine myself. For I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah."

  / You Know
• 

  ThiChi

  ""There simply aren’t enough hours in the day for me to wade through all the posts, let alone respond to everyone. Fact is though, that just recently a poster was whining that I never responded to him but I always responded to AlanF. For me it’s like dealing with a room full of crying babies; it’s just an impossible situation. While at times I actually enjoy reading your posts and sparing with you, and you have to admit that we have had some great debates over the years, on the recent round I have to admit that I only briefly skimmed over your last few posts because they were so long and it just ain’t worth it for me. But since you have made it such a personal thing by attacking me this way, well, male ego being what it is…. ""

  I must agree with YK. He has made a good effort to address most questions with his cites and reasoning. To call him a coward is truly baseless, whatever your viewpoints are.

  “Cancel my subscription to the resurrection. Send my credentials to the House of Detention, I got some friends inside.....” The Doors
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  To Robert (You Know):

  I studied the majority of the contents of these two threads dedicated to determining whether or not the WTBS is a prophet and what type.

  I carefully read both arguments. I studied the prosecutorial allegations and supporting evidence from WTBS publications.

  And then I watched and waited (eagerly) for your responses. I do understand it is difficult for you due to the overwhelming responses and requests to communicate with you, and the requests never cease.

  However, I had a special reason for observing the outcome of both of these threads. I needed personal reconciliation, assurance, direction and partial closure. You might not believe this, but deep in the most secret inner places of my heart/soul, I almost hoped you would prevail. Perhaps, after years of "witnessing/witness life", some of the routine is still embedded into my core.

  However, the end result of these two threads confirmed some suspicions and generated some disappointment. It also proved a few things. The end result is your defense was inadequate, in my opinion. I don't think anyone in this forum other than you Robert, is as staunch a supporter of the WTBS and exerts as much effort in its defense. Even when I was a supporter, I could not have mustered some of the defenses you have in the past.

  But, time and time again, your forces were surrounded, outnumbered, and outgunned. The overall quality of your defense in these two prophet threads did not measure up nor produce legitimate incontrovertible evidence to defend and exhonerate the printed history of the WTBS. The prosecution was formidable and the evidence originated from the defendant's own sources. It turned into a landslide, and your final treatise became "I know I an serving Jehovah and not the WTBS". Unfortunately, it was very weak.

  I learned that the obvious is in fact true, the WTBS allegiance to its history and leadership prevent the organization and its members worldwide from true unprecedented spiritual growth, by witholding lifesaving information and initiating scandalous coverups which are masked with ambiguous propaganda and administratively enforced to ensure global compliance. It is all true now! The written evidence speaks milestones!

  I am sorry for you and for many others in my life who are vitally important. Perhaps your dream of prophetic cleansing of the WTBS may in fact come true, either divinely or by Caesar. I don't know when or which, just that it is inevitable.

  You can no longer launch NEW threads or efforts to boldly "proclaim" the word of Jehovah, as you state, in confidence and freeness of speech. The WTBS was carefully weighed (according to biblical standards and by WTBS intepretations) and found lacking and deficient.

  For all intents and purposes, it is still a religion, like may others. However, the difference is much more imagined than real.

  Your battle started valiantly and finished in a humiliating defeat. There really was no other outcome possible, given the facts and your position. Perhaps your posture on certain matters will require another look.

  In conclusion, thank you for all of the efforts you made in defending a faith we once held in communion, and thank you for all of the responses. You were tireless, unyielding and brave to say the least. However, it was a lost cause and the few minor skirmishes in which you may have felt victorious or vindicated, were in fact pyrrhic at best.

  May you find courage, real truth and may you grow and learn forever, for as long as you have health and life!