God and Suffering

by AK - Jeff 322 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Perry
    Perry
    You are assuming too much here. You are judging it illogical that if god refuses to judge people, that he is evil. Other then the bible, what are you relying on to make this assumption, another personal conversation you had with Jesus?

    And this is the insanity Jeff. How can you look at yourself in the mirror and see anything but a fraud? I'm not trying to be nasty here, but seriously? The definition of the word God, which you changed to the word god because you are apparently simply deceptive and know no other way to be, requires him to be perfectly loving, perfectly powerful and perfectly JUST, etc. So how can a perfectly just God, not judge? That's the question you still refuse to answer. I am not employing the bible as you falsely charge in this instance, this is simply logic.

    Likewise you refuse to answer the first question as well but attempt to change the question? Won't work on thinking people.

    Until someone can logically explain why God "allows" suffering and doesn't step in, I could give a rats behind about the reconciliation.

    I have already explained the biblical answer to your question about 5 TIMES NOW. Simply claiming that someone needs to explain it again is pure catatonical brain cessation.

    But, I'll ask it again. What is it about the biblical explanation that we are God's enemy rather than his children that is illogical as it relates to the simutaneous existence of both God and Suffering?

  • Perry
    Perry
    If you start the story with a fairy tale, then how do you expect people to believe it once they remove the bag from their heads? That is why I compared it to Cinderella or Santa Claus.

    But AK-Jeff...YOU are the one who started with the premise of the existence of God. REMEMBER?

    This extremely cowardly debate trick of invoking the almighty and then when your argument falls apart simply stating with the wave of your hand that it doesn't matter because he doesn't really exist anyway has been thoroughly exposed on this thread as a fraud.

    It is mind mummification.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Because God made man! That according to your very own holy writ.

    He does not get off without responsibility in the matter, no matter how you shake it.

    If we are to believe that story in Genesis, then God is the father of mankind. Plain and simple. All your theological gymnastics don't negate the original premise!

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    My premise is, and continues to be, THAT IF GOD EXISTS, then......

    I don't think he does. At least not the Bible God. That is the one we are talking about, right?

    Jeff

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    AK Jeff, this wasn't the purpose of your original question, but since Perry has offered as an answer to the "why suffering" question that we are sinners and that is why suffering exists, and we are born sinners and thus alienated from god, that premise merits further investigation before it is accepted, as you very well know.

    For Perry, being a Christian is all about accepting that we are sinful, alienated from god, and that only Jesus can save us.

    Without the original sin from Genesis, there is no need for Jesus sacrifice.

    If you believe that the Garden of Eden story in the first 3 chapters of Genesis really happened, well, I bet you believe that the whole Earth flooded one time because YHWH got ticked....... Oh.

    See, at what point are you willing to suspend reality to believe that you are sinful and that this somehow explains suffering? It's all connected if you are a bible believer.

    So what is illogical in pointing out that if you believe in sin that requires forgiveness through Jesus sacrifice, that this sin originated thanks to talking snakes in a ridiculous story that actually condemns god? Are we supposed to feel sorry for god that they ate *gulp* a fruit and that they were tempted by *huh* a snake that talks?

    There is no point in hypothesizing about if its just for god or not to judge people as evil if the whole thing is based on a fairy tale.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Ak-Jeff says:

    If we are to believe that story in Genesis, then God is the father of mankind. Plain and simple. All your theological gymnastics don't negate the original premise!

    And Oh how untrue this is! There are ZERO theological gymnastics needed in this case. People disown their progeny and disinherit their offspring all the time. Once a child has become so corrupted and dangerous to themselves and others, MANY parents have legally disinherited their offspring. This legal cutting off, separates them and any children that the disinherited may have to ANY LEGAL rights whatsoever to that ancestor.

    So, by what possible logic could you employ that would at the same time allow this legal instrument for humans and not for God?

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    So, by what possible logic could you employ that would at the same time allow this legal instrument for humans and not for God?

    For eating an apple, when convinced by a snake? Wow, that is corrupt isn't it? I can see disinheriting all of mankind over such a serious sin as that!

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    The Hebrew had been mistranslated I guess!

    Genesis 2:15 "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

    It should have read: "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die sometime in the next 1000 years. In the meantime I will allow you to bring forth children, and all of them I will stand condemned for your eating that apple. To ten-thousand generations I shall condemn them all for your sin of eating the apple. I shall in time come back to earth, and die on a cross for your sins, but I think I will wait about 4000 years for that. Then after I have paid the price I myself set for your ransom, I will go away again, and come back sometime many dozens of centuries later. In the meantime I will just ignore all your offspring, all their pain, all their suffering, all their tragedy, for I will have excused myself by having left you."

    Then at least the ground rules would have been set fairly!

    Jeff

  • Perry
    Perry

    Now we move into more productive territory finally

    God is not simply our disinherited ancestor, he is also a King of a vast Kingdom. His very word becomes law. It is not a democracy or a socialist state.

    Disobeying God required death, that was the deal right? It was very serious....capital punishment. So, the disconnection from the Source of life happened immediately......mental, moral, spirtual and physical decay started. God didn't disinherit mankind, he disinherited Adam....mankind was simply inside of Adam.

    Of course the above does require reliance on the biblical account and I understand if you don't want to go there. However, there too, notwithstanding its truthfulness or falsity....what is illogical about that story?

  • The Finger
    The Finger

    It seems to me that sometimes people who don't believe in God want to argue as if he is real. That seems silly. I believe in God and have good reason too. God is not one to be mocked.

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