Thanks for your letter and the thoughts contained. Others had commented on the latest shift of the interpretation of “this generation.” As you recognize this allows for an unending extension of time and likely stems from an awareness of the approach of the year 2014 marking 100 years since the date of 1914. It seems plain from a full reading of Jesus’ teaching, and the reflected effect expressed by his disciples in their writings, that he intended his followers to view his coming as something that could—might—take place at any time. The very unknowableness of the time of its occurence contributes to that effect, and calls for unremitting vigilance and spiritual alertness. There is a major difference, however, between viewing his coming in that sense and viewing it as something that must come within a certain time frame, such as the lifetime of a specific generation at one point in history. It is normal for people to wish, to hope, that that glorious coming will take place in their lifetime, not in someone else’s lifetime. That has been true in all periods. Some in the first century, as in following centuries and in modern times, committed the error of believing that it would occur in their lifetime. But not because Christ or the writings of his apostles and disciples had encouraged that as having any certainty. It is not necessary to assume that Matthew or John or Peter or Paul realized the full extent of the interim, that they knew the intervening time would be many centuries. But their writings reflect their recognition that Christians’ faith would be tested by the passage of time, and that there was no assignable time frame within which the parousia would occur. We today can confidently look to that coming as a certainty and can rightly feel that it could occur in our lifetime but we have no basis for viewing that as certain to occur. The only certainty is that it will take place and that is the message of Scripture.
response from Ray Franz on generation change
by isaacaustin 56 Replies latest jw friends
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Chalam
Some interesting points here IA, thanks for posting.
A quick refresher might be useful.
Matthew 24:30-33 (New International Version)
30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that itis near, right at the door.
Clearly, the WT thought they knew all the signs of when Jesus would appear. When He didn't "appear in the sky" in 1914 they changed their mind and said He arrived invisibly
All the other times they said they knew "all these things" were about to happen, nothing materialised.
Clearly, the WT do not know the first thing, and they will continues to mutate their predictions as they fail to appear.
Ferocious wolves indeed Matthew 7:15
Blessings,
Stephen
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minimus
I like Ray.
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isaacaustin
Thanks Chalam. As the preceding verses show, world event will continue throughout history wrought full of problems. These problems are not the sign. These problems will always happen, and the beginning of the chapter warns against being deceived by them. I would think many thought the end was near when the Spanish influenza was killing many- that this was a sign. Verses 30-33 make plain the sign will be something visible, a phenomena in the sky.
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Butterflyleia85
Interesting Isaacaustin! Interesting points made...
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isaacaustin
thanks Butterflyleia. All of Matt 24 is misused by the org- to justify their own leadership and then to stress the end coming any day now. Watch this: (see my comments after verses 6 and 7)
Matthew 24:1-51
</form>1 Departing now, Jesus was on his way from the temple, but his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do YOU not behold all these things? Truly I say to YOU , By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”
3 While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
4 And in answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads YOU ; 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 Y OU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
The Wt likes to quote verses 3, then 6 and 7. If you instead read verses 3 thru 7 you would see Jesus is saying not to be misled, people would come in his name claiming to be him, world events would go wild......he then elaborates over this in the next few verses. However...when you catch up to verse 29 you will see it says AFTER the tribulation of those days the sign would come and the end is near. The Luke parallel of this account even says that when these world conditions occur theend is not here yet. These accounts are warning to stay awake at all times, but also not to be deceived by world events. Rather it will happen when it happens, as a thief in the nite.
9 “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU , and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) 16 then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains. 17 Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house; 18 and let the man in the field not return to the house to pick up his outer garment. 19 Woe to the pregnant women and those suckling a baby in those days! 20 Keep praying that YOUR flight may not occur in wintertime, nor on the sabbath day; 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.
23 “Then if anyone says to YOU , ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU . 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU , ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
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Terry
If the bible doesn't Say/does Say something were are equally uninformed for all the accuracy of understanding derrived in studying it.
So, what is the difference between NOT HAVING THE BIBLE and having the Bible and not being able to understand it?
None.
Basing a View on something incomprehensible is the saming as "just making things up".
Where am I wrong?
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minimus
Issac, did anyone ever tell you how much you look like Ray?
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thetrueone
Basing a View on something incomprehensible is assuming as "just making things up".
Exactly and that is what the ancient writers of the words of the bible did.
This is something certainly to believe and hold true if a person were to keep to their own personal integrity
and intellectual honesty.
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thetrueone
What should be realized is whatever the WTS has stated or pronounced in the past,
it was done to support the Watchtower Publishing Corporation.