I and the Father are one. John 10:30.

dgp

I'm not that good at quoting the Bible. I see no value in learning verses by heart, sorry. However, I just learned that in the New World Translation (the organization's Bible), John 10:30, Jesus is said to say "I and the Father are one". Question: Is Jehovah "one" with Michael the Archangel?

cofty

Its a favourite text of trinitarians but it reads too much into the text. The wt position that the "oneness" referred simply to unity of purpose is not unreasonable.

Jesus prayed that his followers may be "one" in the same way. Shame that they have proved to be anything but one and have slain each other in great numbers.

I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. John 17:11

leec

Quote any passage from any translation fo the bible, and its interpretation, and, using the brand of "logic" JWs and other religions use to explain things their way, it can be spun into 5 different interpretations, often with one of them directly contradicting the original interpretation provided.

Some people here use similar "logic" to make political arguments ....

dgp

Leec, I agree with you.

The wt position that the "oneness" referred simply to unity of purpose is not unreasonable.

But, is this the real meaning? There will never be an agreement as to that.

FuzzyPaul

Hebrews says that no angel was ever called son. When Jesus said "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" the WT crooks wrote "I am 'in union' with the Father and the Father is 'in union' with me". Paul, on Mar's hill in Athens during his "The Unknown God" speech that we exist "in God"

"so that they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 For in Him we live and move and exist" Acts 27:27,28 Holman CSB.

Jesus is called "God". "The virgin will conceive, have a son, and name him Immanuel ." (Isaiah 7:14 HCSB) "they will name Him Immanuel , which is translated "God is with us." (Matthew 1:23). "For a child will be born for us, a son will be given to us, and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be named Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [THE] God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1)

The WarTower didn't need to say Jesus was [a] god since they failed to see that in the Greek the Father is called "The God". That distinction is significant yet Jesus "will be named ... Mighty God." But not by the WT. Thus they fail to fulfill that prophecy and have let us ex-JWs in Christendom to be part of fulfilling that prophecy.

Good night,

Fuzzy

AGuest

Groan.

And peace to you all...

A slave of Christ,

SA

yesidid

Moan.

y

Chalam

Hello dgp

Is Jehovah "one" with Michael the Archangel?

No, but then Jesus never was, is or will be and angel.

This verse explains simple Jesus' oneness with the Father

John 1:1 (New International Version)

The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Or these here

Philippians 2:5-7 (New International Version)

5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

Blessings,

Stephen

cofty

Stephen you are grasping at straws. Every proof text you can mine to "prove" Jesus is god/God can properly be understood in more than 1 way while still paying attention to the context.

John 1:1 is not a strong candidate. There is no question that JWs do not view Jesus with anything like the same reverence as the early church did but the deification of Jesus was a gradual process, support for it in scripture is tentative at best.

In order to justify such a self-contradictory concept as the trinity the church had to wrestle with such weird concepts as...

appropriation

perichoresis

hypostasis

ousia

procession versus dual procession

filoque etc etc

Followers of "Jesus meek and mild" have tortured and murdered each other in large numbers over such trivia

Chalam

Hello cofty,

Every proof text you can mine to "prove" Jesus is god/God can properly be understood in more than 1 way while still paying attention to the context.

John 1:1 is not a strong candidate.

I understand your statement cofty, I have seen enough JWs who have been sucked into the delsion. Even their "religion" is based on faith, albeit in the WT.

However, I have to say I think John 1:1 is one of the strongest candidates, a clear statement of Jesus being God, just look at the heritage of John's writing.

Genesis 1:1-3 (New International Version)

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1-3 (New International Version)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

The WT tampering of verse 1 is quickly and firmly rebutted in verse 3, Jesus made everything, without Him nothing was made that has been made.

Anyhow, you are free to believe what you wish. It does not affect who Jesus was, is and will be Hebrews 13:8