by leavingwt 51 Replies latest jw friends
I think Jesus' point was that a person would have to be "amoral". Any standard of Justice demands that since you judge (even if only once in your life) then you yourself should be judged by the same standard.
So if you have never gotten angry when someone lied to you or called the police when you were ripped off....you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
Good Luck.
Hi LWT,
There is another way to avoid hell besides the way of cross . Jesus once said, "judge not lest ye be judged" .
Good Luck.
Hopefully the "Good Luck" statement says it all, we all judge, just as we all sin.
If not, the staments are pure heresy :(
John 14:6Ephesians 2:18John 10:9
Blessings,
Stephen
Exactly Chalam. Nuance is hard to transmit over the internet.
When I escaped the tower in 83, I said to myself I am going to find out what this book, the bible says
for myself and not be at the mercy of anyone telling me what they think it says.
I read cover to cover 5 different translations, which for the most part are very similar and the unbiased
dominant theme of the bible I found in my independent notes was predestination.
I didnt know what I was looking for. But predestination is what I found. It hit me in the head like
a 2x4.
Baptist and Pentacostals dont like to hear that. But I also assertained very few Baptist or Penticostals have
ever read the bible cover to cover. They believe what their shepard, pastor, preacher tells them
when they go to church. And they read the bible piece meal, cherry picking what they want
to. It seems to me thats pretty much what most bible based religions that I am aware of do.
Predestination is pretty much the basis of astrology, Maybe thats why religious, bible people and
God dont want the masses aware of, or dabling with it. Astrology.
The awareness may circumvent Gods plan and the writing of his book, his story.
After the big bang things are pretty much predetermined and unfolding according to
the designer, Gods plan. Thats physics and quantum physics and astrology.
Hitler had to be Hitler. Pharoh had to be pharoh. I got to be me and you got to be you.
Like the Stones said you cant always get what you want.
The unfolding of the big bang is why.
The unfolding of the big bang is also astrolgy.
If you can find someone who understands astrology and tell them when you were born.
They can tell you all about yourself.
I had a reading once both my wife and I and its scary. Nothing more than the date you were born.
Many people are walking around like zombies. In america they are called consumers who watch
t.v. They dont know whats going on no-how. They do know whos on Amerian Idol tonight and
whats happening on lost.
More or less they are in their living hell, right now and dont even know it.
There not attached to God, they dont care about God and when they die they figure thats
it, this life is all there is.
Thats what hell is, not being attached or aware of God, being in spiritual darkness.
Being a naturalist, thinking this world, universe is a self contained box with nothing affecting
it but elements in the periodic table.
And having arrisen mysteriously from the 94 elements of the periodic table.
No possiblity for any sort of miricle.
And being totally oblivious and unaware that the big bang and our life and conciousness
is one big miracle from God.
God made this story, its call His story, history.
I see it as those who are scheduled for destruction are sort of like sheep dogs sheparding
the flock back home. Most of them probably dont even know it. Feed them give them
a bone a little tv and they are happy.
God is this conciousness who is sitting at this giant computer engineering and manipulating
this Universal sims City program.
God may be unattached and not affected.
Or he may be feeling what is going on.
Its hard to say. It depends on your understanding and interpretation of God.
What kind of God do you want? What kind of God do you need.
That's the kind of God he will be.
Because you are him and he is you.
God sent out parts of himself, spirits to have material experiences and then return back to himself.
The vessels that are not made for glory but disshonorable purposes are like props, to facilitate
this experience.
God is having this experience because at this point in time which is all there is, right now, this
is how God knows how or chooses to entertain himself.
Its possible that God is attached, connected to everybody and everything and he enjoys all
the different feelings. You cant appreciate being happy unless you know what sadness is.
You cant appreciate peace unless you know what terror is.
God is conciousness and we are concious. We are part of God.
Possibly, you can choose to be saved. Since you are asking questions, you are displaying awareness
and conciousness. When you become aware of who you are, you will know where you are
going.
You were going there all along, its just a process that you have awoken to.
You can choose not to be saved and I see many doing that.
If you say there is no God.
This life, this world, this universe made up of the 94 elements in the periodic table is all there
is then who can save you, and why would you want to be saved, and what would you want
to be saved to.
Its all choices pluses and negatives.
Life is not only stranger than you think, it is stranger than you can think.
Thats my 2 cents worth, based on my 57 years of research and documentation.
bookmarked
leavingwt
Will you please explain why these passages do not contradictCalvinism?
There is a wealth of material online and I've examined some of it. I'm more interested in a simple explanation, such as what you'd use in your personal ministry.
I'm sorry, I missed your thread a couple of days ago. I would say that most of us who believe in sovereign grace, see the passages you sited through this lens.
Joh 6:43
Jesus answered them, "Do not grumble among yourselves. 44No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--So who chooses to come? Only those who hear and learn from God.
Here's the other (non predestination) side of the coin
2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Ezekiel 18:23
23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
Ezekiel 18:3232 For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”
John 3:1616 “For God so loved the world,that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Romans 8:3232 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
2 Corinthians 5:14-1514 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Titus 2:1111 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
1 Timothy 2:44 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Matthew 18:12-1412 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray?13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray.14 So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
Blessings,
Stephen
Stephen
I hope you are aware that none of the passages you site, actually contradict sovereign grace.
Deputy Dog -- Thank you. The JWs would often quote that Scripture and yet they would insist that they don't believe in Predestination. I could not reconcile their rejection of Predestination with the simple message of that Scripture, indicating that only those who the Father "draws" will accept the good news. I'm not trying to open a can of worms, as this topic is quite involved. Also, most of the ex-JW community here has expressed the opinion that JWs do not believe in Predestination, even if they believe this Scripture. So, I'm in a minority.
Hello DD,
How can those who have not been predestined for salvation "turn and live"?
I think this is LWT's original point and I understand it well
Persoanlly, I have put it on one side, not to "sweep it under the carpet" but untimately I do not know all the parameters. My mind and heart is finite, not infinite.
If I have created my won universe I might truly be able to comment.
Blessings,
Stephen
