Martin Benzie, Philip Jones and Ian Shanks - prize chumps.
Q to all those ex elders on here (and the wannabees )
If you'd been on the first judicial committee, or the appeal committee, what conclusions would you have drawn?
THE FINAL VERDICT IS DELIVERED!!!
by Hobo Ken 52 Replies latest jw friends
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passwordprotected
I'd have disfellowshipped Matt for his attitude; how dare he calmly stand up to the glorious ones.
As an elder said to me during my exit, "forget what Jesus said".
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Hobo Ken
cantleave:- Thanks, it wasn't easy but when you see the org and it's exponents for what they are you are on higher ground.
Leaving wt:- Don't you know that the old publications would be considered apostate?
I pointed out that if I was still holding to a teaching that was current when I left then it was changed in the interim then that would mean I was "stubornly holding" to a wrong belief. Without batting an eye they said that's why you need to keep coming to the meetings........lol. that's what we're up against.
Regarding personal views you're right you can't hold them. At one point Ian Shanks says "do you know what my personal views are?" He then gestures toward the publication he is holding...... and it wasn't the Bible. So the current teaching of the WTBS is his personal view....wow.
CyberJesus:- I'm no hero but thanks for the big up. lol.
Besty:- Martin Benzie , he chaired it. "more intelligent".....than?....lol
Thomas covenant :- thankyou for listening. My pleasure.
Boyzone:- Their cognitive dissonance is astounding.
I may not be a hero but I'll take amazing!! lol. Thankyou. x
Iknowall;- Well said. They are the one's who are trapped and want you back in their fold to reassure themselves they are in the right place.
Under their rules and preconditions though.
Slim;- He knows all about many of the issues but he chooses to ignore them because he wants to believe. Mind control at work.
Also it's worth listening to the 30 mins or so of podcast 8 which is a one on one with Ron and I down at the hall.
He is told that 607 is bogus and I don't believe it and he knew that I wasn't kidding around. I told him that if he wants to believe in it he can, just leave me out of the equation. I also have it on good authority that he was "seriously troubled by the things I said from the Bible so much so that he had to go and check it out".
You are right they wanted it done and dusted quickly but I wanted my day in court and for them to pay in behalf of the organisation for the many people who have been wronged in a similar way.
They consistently tried to catch me out on Blood , church attendance and memorial partaking which had not even been discussed previously. Treacherous i'd say. Wasn't expecting that.
Stonewall :- Thanks. It was a nice way to end things in an understated way. They claim to live by the Bible, so just let the Bible condemn them.
I agree that it's worth a listen for any JW or prospective member. It's one of the many reasons I recorded it.
Sacdfan:- Thankyou for your comments. I hope your "time never comes". It's sometimes not a matter of choice I admit though.
It is a truly great scripture and not one many Jw's are aware of , for obvious reasons.
No one outside of a court of law is fit to judge others especially on such specious things as the doctrines of a religious group, which is in-turn based on the idea that we can understand everything in the Bible and make rules for our fellow humans.
Password ;- well said. And big thanks for all your help in my efforts to expose these people and their actions.
Could not have done it without you brother.
Quillsky;- My brother dragged himself into it I'm afraid. His misguided loyalty to both the organiation and Ronnie Hunter is what motivated him.
Hopefully one day he will wake up and feel very "sheepish" if you pardon the Biblical pun.
You are 100% correct about their agenda , like a freight train with no brakes. I was never coming out of that room as a jw. The stain of the name is gone for ever so I guess they were telling me I'm not like them anymore.
Matt.
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slimboyfat
I hope you don't mind I posted a link to your blog on another forum I use.
Someone there was wondering if you have a transcript? I guess it would take a lot of work considering there are hours on tape.
I was also wondering, now it is all online, whether it would be better to gather all the links in one place and clearly label each segment. It would make it a lot easier to link and for people to follow what is going on.
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donuthole
Having gone through this sort of thing myself, I can say that the elders are more interested in getting you to make self-condemning statements against the FDS/Org than offering any real help for you to see the error of your ways. That was the thrust of my JC where the elders tersely demanded that I answer certain questions and they angrily silenced another elder that was moderately attempting to reason with me. The pretty much mirror the religious leaders of Jesus' day that kept trying to get him to make self-condeming statements and were furious when he met them with silence. The same spirits are at work today.
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slimboyfat
LWT, I guess I should not be so surprised that people are reluctant to accept it's not the truth. After all, although on a certain level I realised quite quickly it was not the truth when I first read Crisis of Conscience, Apocalypse Delayed and other books, in another sense it took me a few years to work it all out in my head. And that's despite the fact I was only a true believer for five years at the most before that. For people who have been in for decades, unless they have a major falling out with the congregation or something, then realising it's not the truth, assuming they are even willing to consider it, probably usually does take quite a while.
Thanks Mark for the background info. Maybe some of these guys will leave eventually and feel bad for what they have done. However they have invested so much in their commitment to this being the truth now that it would be terribly difficult for them I suppose.
Matt I was a bit dubious about the recordings when I first heard them. I thought it was unfair to tape the elders without their knowledge. But now I think they deserved it. Why should they be allowed to hold these proceedings in secret? (Especially when their own Bible talks about 'going before the congregation' to settle matters in the open) Ordinary Witnesses derserve the chance to know what goes on, because it could well be them one day. And I bet a lot of ordinary Witnesses would jump at the chance to hear what goes on inside a judicial committee, even if they don't admit it to apostates. I hope many of them find your blog.
I also understand that you had to be evasive in some of your answers in order to keep the thing going. If you were completely truthful with them it would have been over in minutes and we wouldn't have learned as much about how the process works. I think they sensed at times that you were playing with them, especially when you said you had answered that the GB represent the faithful slave 'only from the Jehovah's Witness point of view' or something. It was like an aha gotcha moment for one of the elders. It's unfortunate this means that the situation is a bit contrived and does not perfectly reflect how a committee would normally take place. However I think it was a worthwhile exercise because it gives a good insight into judicial committee hearings that many of us could not otherwise have observed.
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cattails
another hero!
I agree. You're a hero for remaining cool under fire HK!
I loved the parting scripture you gave them 1 Corinthians 4:1-4
" Let a man so appraise us as being subordinates of Christ and stewards of sacred secrets of God. Besides, in this case, what is looked for in stewards is for a man to be found faithful. Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by YOU or by a human tribunal. Even I do not examine myself. For I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah."
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cry
Very interesting listening. I am sure they knew you had something on them, but they had no alternative but to go through the process of their kangaroo court. Actually, you could just have easily have been talking to robots - they were totaly pre-programmed. Don't know how you could have remained so calm. Also,loved listening to my native tongue!
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Truthexplorer
Hi Hobo ken (Matt)
I listened to all your podcasts (listened to podcast 12 last night) and found them all intriuging. Though, for me, the jury is still out as to the rights and wrongs of recording each of the meetings held, I did however find it fascinating to say the least as to how things progressed. Whats more, given the fact that the GB themselves 'secretly' recorded phone conversations during the 'apostasy' period in 1981 brings things into perspectivefor me.
At one point, you were asked if you beleived that Jehovah is using the organisation on earth today and if you beleived the FDS were Gods sole channel of communication; from what I remember, you agreed with them and I was hoping you would say that you beleive that the work of preaching here on earth today is organised, but in the sense that it is Jesus who is the head of the Christian congregation and that it is the holy spirit which is directly guiding Christians, both on an individual and Congregational level to preach the good news of the kingdom throughout the world (Rev 1:17). I would have also loved it if you pointed out to them that for most of the book of Acts, it is littered with proof that the holy spirit did exactly this in the first century. That would have made them think a bit. I realise though that this is easier said than done; and again you handled yourself remarkably well, particularly in such a difficult situation.
Ian Shanks sounded like he was going for the jugular at times, as if he was fed up with you for skirting round things. He came across as if he just wanted you to say things contrary to the teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses and simply to get rid of you. Yet understandably, what else could you do. If it was me, I would have probably done the same given similiar circumstances. Being shunned by family and friends is no small thing.
I liked the way you asked them to read 1 Cor 4:1-5 as you were leaving. Hopefully they will have done this and reflected on these scriptures when they went home. The bible is the sword of the spirit and who knows what affect these scriptures will have on some of them.
Anyway, all the best to you Matt
TE
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Mad Sweeney
I haven't had a chance to listen yet but I hope to soon. As for recording these clowns without their knowledge or consent, good for you, Matt! They don't deserve the respect you'd be showing by asking permission or by playing according to their rules. They're representatives of a dangerous mind control cult that ruins families and ruins lives. Good luck with your new JW-free life, Matt.