by looloo 26 Replies latest members adult
Hamsterbait wrote:
I remember many years ago a letter from readers in the Asleep!
It was from a Japanese woman thanking them for the rag "Avoiding the Tragedy of Rape". She actually said thank you for helping her realise that if a man succeeded in raping her, that it is her fault. She was now even more determined to avoid it.
That would be terrible. Only one small problem: The imaginary Japanese woman said nothing of the kind. There is no such letter. Hamsterbait's post is a total fabrication.
Mary said:
This article [in the October 15, 1980 Watchtower] is insinuating that no matter what, it's somehow the woman's fault if she gets raped.
Actually the article in questions states unequivocally that "a man has no right to force a woman to have sex with him, under any circumstances" (page 5)
Similarly, The Watchtower commented: "So today, if a sister has been attacked and raped and this has caused her to feel dirty and worthless, would it be appropriate to stress her need of the ransom to cleanse her of that sin? Certainly not. She did not sin in being assaulted. It is the rapist who sinned and needs to be cleansed" (4/1/95, p. 20)
It seems to me that these publications are saying the opposite of what the posters here claim that Jehovah's Witnesses teach.
Flipper wrote:
It is disgusting how the WT society and JW organization de-value women and children. Men get off scot-free in that organization. And they mind control grandmothers like the one you talked to , to blame a rape victim for their own rape.
First, it's just not true that "men get off scot-free in that organization". Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that very well. Jehovah's Witnesses are one of the few religious organizations that do deal with wrongdoing in their midst, whether perpetrated by men or women, and I think the original poster knows that very well.
Secondly, assuming that the looloo's account of what happened is accurate, the grandmother in question did not blame the victim; she blamed the victim's mother for letting her go to the place where the rape took place. Even if the grandmother had blamed the victim, which she did not, that could hardly be a result of Watch Tower mind control, could it? After all, the Watch Tower teaches that rape is never the victim's fault (see above).
jordan12 -
Thank you for sharing that info to the discussion and welcome to the board
Nugget said:
It is a twisted and warped society. Jcs assume both parties are guilty and seek to establish repentance.
Factually, this is false. Rape victims are not called before Judicial Committees, which are formed when someone has committed a serious sin. Being raped is not a sin.
It is easy to find yourself apologising and taking responsibility for some one else because of fear of being DF'd. It is disgusting and damaging and gives sexual predators vindication and justification.
It would be, if that was what happened. But that is not the way Jehovah's Witnesses' congregations handle rape. There is no question of a rape victim being disfellowshipped.
There is no sensitivity and asking a victim if they are sorry is unspeakably callous.
I disagree that 'there is no sensitivity'. Most Witnesses I know are very kind and gentle people. However, I agree it would be callous to ask a victim if they were sorry, which is why the organization does not do it, doubtless that is why The Watchtower said "[any rape victim] did not sin in being assaulted. It is the rapist who sinned and needs to be cleansed"
The societies behaviour and attitude is from the stoneage, no one in the outside world thinks that a girl attending a party is asking to be raped.
Neither does the Society. That's why it said: "We most certainly do not agree that rape is a normal reaction to a woman’s suggestive conduct ... Neither do we agree that the argument that a woman by her dress or actions “invited rape” should ever be allowed as a defense for the rapist." (November 8, 1986)
If it was me I would have been tempted to kick them off my property and file an action for harrassment.
Yes, good idea, kick two old ladies off your property. That will make you feel really big. Filing for harassment? Don't you think you would look a bit foolish?
A sister in my congregation was nearly disfellowshipped by the Elders when she was raped by a neighbor who grabbed her at her door. The Elders tryed to force her into admitting she had provoked the man into raping her. I was just sick about it. Another girl who was raped on her school bus by the bus driver, was publicly reproved and so was the other sister. Two in one congregation who were raped and blamed for the rape.
I decided long ago the Elders were a bunch of pricks.
Ruth
A sister in my congregation was nearly disfellowshipped by the Elders when she was raped by a neighbor who grabbed her at her door. The Elders tryed to force her into admitting she had provoked the man into raping her. I was just sick about it. Another girl who was raped on her school bus by the bus driver, was publicly reproved and so was the other sister. Two in one congregation who were raped and blamed for the rape.
"Nearly disfellowshipped?" So she wasn't disfellowshipped, then. How do you know that any of that is true? I bet it wasn't the elders that told you.
I decided long ago the Elders were a bunch of pricks.
Yes and it is precisely this jaundiced attitude that gives any sensible person good reason to doubt the reliability of your information.
and have confidence in his abundant loving-kindness
Jordan12, forgiveness for what exactly?
Factually, this is false. Rape victims are not called before Judicial Committees, which are formed when someone has committed a serious sin. Being raped is not a sin.
I know two people that were DF'd for getting raped.
One of them was a 16 year old girl that had been raped regularly by her father since she was 10.
Yeah, that's right, raped from the age of 10. Dad and daughter were both DF'd for immorality.
Mom was DF'd too, for wilful disobediance. She rounded up her kids and left his sorry ass, when the elders told her not to.
What the society claims to do is not the same as what they do.
Jordan12, forgiveness for what exactly?
What are you talking about? It says loving-kindness, not forgiveness. The Watchtower quotations says quite clearly that rape victims should not blame themselves, that they did not sin in being assaulted and that rapists bear sole responsibility for the rape. No Watch Tower publication has said that rape victims should ask God for forgiveness. The exact opposite is true:
"So today, if a sister has been attacked and raped and this has caused her to feel dirty and worthless, would it be appropriate to stress her need of the ransom to cleanse her of that sin? Certainly not. She did not sin in being assaulted. It is the rapist who sinned and needs to be cleansed" (4/1/95, p. 20)
