Indiana "Religious Freedom" (right to discriminate)

by Simon 274 Replies latest social current

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  Viviane

  Like with this pizza instance, there is a big difference between a gay person entering the restaurant and them refusing to make them pizza vs them asking them to drive to, attend, and cater their wedding.

  No, there really isn't. The business provides a service. They do that as part of a social contract in the form of a permit, by accepting money, providing goods and services in exchange for that money and paying taxes and accepting the protections and services that the taxes EVERYONE pays for, roads, power service, water, police and fire, etc.

  Why do you think the business should have the benefits of government services that people pay for so the business can make money and then turn away people that paid for the very things the business relies on to stay running?
• 

  EndofMysteries

  Next thing we'll be hearing about black bakers being forced to cater KKK events or weddings and jewish bakers / florists neo nazi weddings and events.
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  Viviane

  http://tribuneherald.net/2013/08/23/kkk-wins-lawsuit-against-bakery-for-discrimination/
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  Viviane

  But, you've still not said why you think a public business open to all who accepts public resources should be able to decide to not serve people based on religious bigotry.
• 

  Simon

  Next thing we'll be hearing about black bakers being forced to cater KKK events or weddings and jewish bakers / florists neo nazi weddings and events.

  The reality is that this is painting a false choice by creating an extreme scenario.

  If someone orders a cake then you should create it. You are not required to write anything hateful on it and a court would be unlikely to back a suit resulting from such a refusal. The baker isn't compelled to attend any event they find objectionable - they just have to provide a cake.

  What they cannot do is refuse to serve certain protected classes which should be based on what people are (black, gay, disabled, white). The real problem is that the religious have injected themselves into this. Now it confuses the situation because "catholic" isn't what someone *is" just as kkk isn't - it's simply a current choice they make.

  The real issue isn't with bakers - they just make overpriced cakes. It's when something more important is at stake.

  Healthcare and law enforcement are obviously important. Can an ambulance driver refuse to drive you to hospital if they don't like your life / beliefs?

  What about someone with a flooded basement - can a christian contractor say "screw you" (pun intended) to stick-it to the gay couple or refuse to fix their roof?

  What if you are in a small town - can the only pharmacy refuse to serve you?

  Protection under the law is important in these cases not for the majority but for the minority to make sure that discrimination can't be used to inflict harm.
• 

  EndofMysteries

  http://tribuneherald.net/2013/08/23/kkk-wins-lawsuit-against-bakery-for-discrimination/

  I think this is the only and first comment of yours I've ever liked and laughed at haha. Nice find.
• 

  Viviane

  I think this is the only and first comment of yours I've ever liked and laughed at haha. Nice find.

  No one is perfect.
• 

  Junction-Guy

  One small, but very vocal sector of society is causing all this ruckus. It is one thing to to ensure equal treatment of people, but to elevate one segment of society to an untouchable class is totally agregious.

  If a muslim bakery refused to cater a wedding of another muslim to an "infidel" do you think they would be sued? doubt it!

  If a JW baker refused to cater a gay wedding would they be sued? doubt it!

  The only people who are sued are born again bible believing christians.

  The issue at stake in the cake bakery is not the fact that they refused to serve gays, it is they refused to participate in a service that goes against their moral conscience. There are some businesses (fewer nowadays) that aren't willing to sacrifice their convictions for a quick buck, and this baker was one of them.

  
  

  
  
• 

  DJS

  Couldn't help it, could you Junction Guy? I wondered when you were going to show up to spread your own particular brand of hate. You are completely wrong; the courts have determined that you are wrong and will continue to do so. The US Constitution, when it was penned, determined that you are wrong.

  Your examples are wrong. The only people being sued are haters who are discriminating and violating the US Constitution as well as the individual laws protecting blacks, religious people, gays and others from begin discriminated AGAINST in commerce and business. Practice your own brand of X-tian hate inside the confines of your churches and homes. You do not have a legal right to practice your hate in the marketplace.

  Born again bible believers also were the tip of the spear in hating and discriminating against blacks, so I will 'fix' your comments:

  "The issue at stake in the cake bakery is not the fact that they refused to serve blacks, it is they refused to participate in a service that goes against their moral conscience. There are some businesses (fewer nowadays) that aren't willing to sacrifice their convictions for a quick buck, and this baker was one of them."
  

  
  
• 

  Junction-Guy

  you can call me wrong all you want, but that doesn't change the actual issue that this case is about.