The JW belief "death pays for sin"

by Chalam 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  mindmelda

  If you equate death with sinning, then yes, you're going to come to the dead end of JW theology(pun intended) which teaches not that belief in Christ saves the intangible spiritual aspect of man, the soul, if you will, but only serves to make fodder for an earthly resurrection to a physical existence that sounds good, but offers hardly more communion with the spirit of the Divine than we have now in our present earthly form.

  Christianity offers literal spiritual oneness with God upon leaving the physical body, which would have been received variously by the various Jewish sects that Christ spoke to, and also by pagans that Christians later spoke to. It's likely that many pagans would have recognized the desire to be one with God in ways that Jews would not have, and vice versa.

  It can either be considered a spiritual progression or regression, as many earlier religions believed there were various ways to be ONE with God, or the Gods, in many differing ways, by various ritual. It is not actually a new thought, not even the idea of atoning blood of a God buying our souls is a new thought, it existed before Christianity and before Judaism too.

  But, Christ did represent a living embodiment of that very old and persistant spiritual concept, that through the blood of a divine being, we ourselves might become one with God.

  That makes it significant for those who believe it, and isn't that what belief is all about? We're always looking for ways to express that intangible that is spirituality inside us in meaningful, outward ways. Hence, ritual, sacrifice, atonement, but the epitome of all of that is to attain oneness with the Divine.

  However, JW doctrine only allows for a select few to attain that. Why deny it to the majority? The only conclusion I can draw is that it is a controlling device, and keeps the masses "in their place" by letting them know that they will never be quite as "divine" as the people in control of the religion.

  It's one of the defining characteristics of almost every highly controlling cult. "You can only get to God through us."

  Mainstream Christianity offers union with God who is embodied by Christ directly, more or less. There's no FTS "middle man".
• 

  Krettnawe

  But doesnt Christiainty as a whole teach "you can only get to GOD through us"?

  Out of all the religions of the world, Christiainty takes thier central figure and elevates him into a position that no other religion does.

  The Buddhists have the Buddha, the Jews have Abraham, the Muslims have Mohammed. All these central figures are seen as enlightened by thier prospective followers, but in the end they are still seen as merely men.

  Christiainty takes thier central figure and makes him... (dramatic pause)

  GOD...

  That's a pretty big jump that no other religion has ever taken.

  Then add John 14:6, John 3:36, and 1 John 5:11-13 to the GOOD NEWS and guess what?

  You definetly have a "only you can get to GOD through us" mentality.

  The same exact reasoning the JW's use, the only difference is the umbrella of salvation is much smaller in their case. But, hey, if we are going to criticize one specific sect for dogmatically asserting thier interpretative difference over another, then we ought to step back and look at the bigger picture and realize that all religionists are by nature, dogamatic.

  Without a certain degree of dogmatacism noone would idenitfy themselves as this religion or that religion. Without a certain degree of dogamticism we are all basically Theists...

  So, how is the JW reasoning about them holding exclusive rights to GOD any different than Christianity's reasoning they have exclusive access to GOD?
• 

  Chalam

  Thanks for all the posts.

  Nice exchange everyone indeed as designs put it :)

  tenyearsafter I think that the point that might be overlooked here is that even if a person does "die in this system", they would be resurrected to a life of working toward perfection for 1000 years.

  Indeed, more WT falsehood, salvation by works, not a gift that just need to be received.

  Ephesians 2:8-9 (New International Version)

  8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

  Revelation 21:6 (English Standard Version)

  6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.

  Revelation 22:17 (New International Version)

  17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

  There is no guarantee that they will survive the "final unloosing of Satan".

  More lies from the WT, here's the real deal

  John 10:28-30 (New International Version)

  28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one."

  John 6:37 (New International Version)

  37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

  2 Corinthians 1:21-22 (New International Version)

  21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

  2 Corinthians 5:4-5 (New International Version)

  4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

  They could still be destroyed and lose their everlasting life...thus a JW would say that they still needed Jesus' sacrifice to ultimately gain everlasting life, providing they make it through the 1000 year reign of Christ. They will be called from their graves to work toward perfection and then ultimately face destruction if they fail their test of loyalty.

  More falsehood, those that have their part in the first resurrection are holy already and cannot bear no part in the resurrection and judgement of the unrighteous that occurs after the thousand years.

  Revelation 20:4-6 (New International Version)

  4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

  Isn't that clear as mud??...

  That is the way they like it, make their alternative gospel so hard to understand that you given up trying and then swallow the "spiritual food" wholesale, hooks and all :(

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  Chalam

  Welcome Krettnawe!

  But doesnt Christiainty as a whole teach "you can only get to GOD through us"?

  Yes, only through Jesus. This is a bold claim

  John 14:6 (New International Version)

  6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  Deputy Dog

  Stephen

  So, why did Jesus to die for our sins if we are just going to pay for them with our own death's?!

  I think the bigger problem you have going on here, is, JWs (or any unsaved person) can't understand that they are dead already (Eph 2:1)

  They don't believe Adam and Eve died (spiritualy) on the very same day they ate the fruit.
• 

  designs

  DD

  Actually a JW teaching is that Adam and Eve died spiritually on the day they ate the Avocado.......or was it a Pear the artists were drawing?
• 

  snowbird

  LOL.

  It was a pear.

  "It wasn't the apple on the tree; it was the pair on the ground."

  Sylvia
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Stephen

  See what I mean?
• 

  designs

  DD,

  When you loose your sense of humor over religion (which is hysterical) you better find another gig