by dandingus 62 Replies latest jw friends
I could never understand why some people feel that suicide is a selfish act.
To me, it's like saying "I have to live so they should have to also!"
Plus, way to kick a person when he's down. When a person is suicidal, they are in an extreme amount of emotioanl pain, to call them "selfish" is just plain cruel and insensitive.
Suicide is taking the life of someone who may be dear to others. In such a case the pain and shock can cause great suffering to those who were close and are left behind. I have known a number of suicides over the years and the loss to the parents is inestimable. Also a father who takes his own life often leaves behind a wife and children who have to live with their loss.
But as I said above: "Suicide causes a great deal of pain for loved ones left behind but often the person wanting to end their life is in too much emotional pain to consider the pain of others, or they have no loved ones."
Actually I believe the word FREEDOOM came from the early Christians. They could be FREE if they denounced their faith. Or DOOMED if they chose to be thrown to the lions.
I was also told once the lyrics from the T.V series "Mash".... suicide is painless It brings on many changes, and you can take or leave it as you please" was written by a 14 year old boy.
As to the question do I feal suicide is wrong. Iam always aware how easy it is to be the perpertrater who brings a person to suicide.So Iam glad I never had the responsibility of being an elder. Also thats why I refrain from helping some witnesses see my new understanding of their faith.
Acolytes
I tried to commit suicide in August 2005. I'm glad I failed. As a friend in AA later told me (when I was still struggling with my problems) "As long as you are alive, we can try to help you. If you eat your gun you are going to be where we can't help anymore."
Suicide can cause terrible pain for those that are left behind. Wives, children and parents all wondering "what could I have done." There will always be a nagging suspicion that the suicide really wanted to hurt somebody.
Now, I do think this is a lot different in the case of terminal illness. I don't fault some one who wants to end the pain.
BTW "Suicide is Painless" was written by Mike Altman, the director's son. He was born in 1955 and the movie came out in 1970.
Suicide Wong
....................... ...OUTLAW
No, it's not wrong. More cake for me.
Lots of good thoughts here. I'm not going to dwell on this topic overmuch, but I have a few additional things to say about this and then I'll let it go. After all, to deal with it is healthy, to dwell on it is not.
First, it's been suggested before that suicide is an act of cowardice. "They took the easy way out", etc.
To that I submit that it actually takes quite a bit of courage and resolve to see it through. Consider the second half of Hamlet's famous "To be or not to be" soliloquy (emphasis mine, obviously):
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action.
He was in a great deal of emotional pain, to the point where he welcomed the thought of death. But he was turned "coward" by his conscience and his fear of what may have awaited him after this life. It's not as "easy" as some might think. There's nothing "easy" about that decision. In fact I'd say in every case it's an act of desperation that is not resorted to unless one truly believes there is no better alternative. This perspective is usually skewed of course, but that is the belief.
That is not to say that it is not a self-centered act, because it is. They are unable to see past their own pain and so focus only on self and not the feelings of others, but I do not believe that it is an act of cowardice. That's just my personal opinion, however.
Secondly, all personal spiritual convictions of right and wrong in the sight of God held aside, it's an interesting consideration from an anthropological point of view to see how much our perception of this concept is shaped by our own culture.
Most western thought considers suicide to be appalling, and the Catholic Church (among other religions) holds that it's a sin against God and man. That someone who commits this "sin" is automatically consigned to hell, never again to enter into the grace of God due to his or her forfeiture of what would have otherwise been their place in heaven. This is also reflected in religious commentary and poetry influenced by the church. Dante in the Divine Comedy (specifically the Inferno) places suicides in the seventh circle of hell (middle tier).
When the exasperated soul abandons
The body whence it rent itself away,
Minos consigns it to the seventh abyss.
Contrast this with the samurai practice of "seppuku", a form of ritual suicide whereby a warrior who was captured, defeated, or otherwise dishonored, disgraced, or shamed could attempt to reclaim some dignity and "die with honor".
To the christian it was an act of shame from which there was no redemption; to the samurai it was an act of honor to offset shame, an act of redemption in itself.
Either way, I think we all agree that we're better off here as long as we can be. Especially if we have family or at least someone in our lives who loves us. As short as life is anyway, it is a pity to see it snuffed out before its natural time has come. But is it "wrong"? I think it's all a matter of perspective.
Anyway, that's my take and my thoughts on the subject. Thanks to everyone for sounding off and participating! I enjoyed reading your opinions and perceptions.
I think the word 'wrong' invokes a moral or legal judgement.
I think people who do it are in extreme pain - emotional, mental, physical - could be one or could be all. I don't see it as selfish because a person totally immersed in such pain and turmoil are not generally rational and thus incapable of acting in logical terms as selfish. They see the pain as inseparable from life and relief from pain/depression/desperation as their primary focus. It is not a normal state. I think it is sad. I think it hurts a lot of people around them....but I think trying to judge it as right or wrong is impossible. It is their body. It is their life. It is their decision. It is their pain. It is not mine so how can I judge too quickly or too harshly?
I have watched people die after refusing to take medical treatment because they were too tired to fight to live any longer...that in itself is just one form of suicide and the impact on my life was not one of hating the person or thinking them selfish; it was listening to the person and trying to understand how life became a chore, a fight, a tiresome journey; instead of the joyous and beautiful adventure I believe it should be. We can learn so much from the people in our lives - what we learn can challenge us and direct us - it can provide us with insight - it can motivate us ....sammieswife.
I have been there done that! It is much better to do these things rather than cap yourself out:
1. Leave the Bitch
2. Quit the Job
3. Ignore the Elders
4. Quit school
5. Greave after the loss of a loved one
6. No one wants’ to be your friend then: Fuck’UM
7. You get disfellowshipped then count your blessings
8. Your children won’t spend enough time with you, refer to number seven (7), just wait
9. Your just so lonely you just ache all the time, well go where there is music you might score
10. Your dying from something bad, Smoke Good Weed
11. The best revenge is living WELL!
12. Suicide is Permanent solution to a Temporary problem
I forgot to mention: Pray it does work for even a sinner like me.
My personal feelings is that any death is sad.
But suicide depends on the situation. Some have an extremely unbearable time coping.
