Watchtower blaspheming the holy spirit

by sacolton 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sacolton
    sacolton

    "Spawn of Satan!"

    "Apostate!"

    Those are just a few from Jehovah's Witnesses towards those who have left the Watchtower organization to become a follower of Jesus Christ.

    Do they know they are blaspheming against the Holy Spirit? Who are they to decide that if one should leave the organization to follow Jesus Christ is actually a follower of Satan? In Matthew 12:31-32 , the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon “Beelzebub” ( Matthew 12:24 ). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what they did to commit “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”

    This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. As a result, this particular incidence of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth—He is seated at the right hand of God. No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit. The closest example today would be attributing the miracle of a redeemed person’s changed life to Satan’s power rather than to the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    So, when a Jehovah's Witnesses curses you for being a follower of Jesus Christ - they are grieving the Holy Spirit by saying they are "possessed" by Satan's power. Are they not like modern-day Pharisees? Also, to remove the Holy Spirit in baptism and insert its own organization as "spirit-directed" since they teach the Holy Spirit is not a person, but an "active force".

    The Holy Spirit can:

    In the Bible, the Holy Spirit has intellect , passions , and will , and can be grieved . In short, the Spirit has a personality .

    The key way of giving the Holy Spirit grief is malice, which is shown as bitterness, rage, anger, clamor (making lots of noise and disruption), and slander. Paul follows this description by what makes for a happy Holy Spirit : forgiving others as, in Christ, God forgave you .

    The Holy Spirit can act in whatever manner the Spirit wants to act. The Spirit generally acts through the church, but doesn't have to; the Wind blows where it will. The Spirit is free not toalways be seriously focused on those purposes; the Spirit can have fun while at work.

    This is all stuff that can't be true of a mere "active force". That is how we often experience the Spirit and know of the Spirit's presence, but that is not what the Spirit is. As God,the Holy Spirit is cause , and that cause has effect . Yet, the Watchtower reduces the Holy Spirit to a force, or to a collective will or a living memory of the gathered believers, or the force of emotion or conscience within a person. Those people, fine as they may be, are describing a different spirit than the Holy Spirit as viewed by the Christian faith. The Spirit works in all of these ways and more, yet against all of them at times. The Spirit works in whatever ways are needed to do what needs to be done, except in choosing not to take forceable control of people's actions.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    They also blaspheme the Holy Spirit in subtle linguistic ways (mind control):

    1. they remove the "the" and simply refer to it as holy spirit

    2. they remove the capital letters; it isn't the Holy Spirit to them, it's 'holy spirit'

  • Krettnawe
    Krettnawe

    JW are accused by thier opposers of being pedophile protectors, of abusing thier children, of being Satanic, and all other sorts of other anti-JW "buzzwords" that is suprisingly common amongst the anti-JW propoganda machine out there.

    It definetly works both ways. I really find it interesting that many who have left the JW's still get upset when JW's drop the big bad A word on them. If your secure in your relationship with GOD then why do you care what one person says or thinks about YOUR standing before GOD?

    Let's not forget that one of the main reasons many have left JW is because of the dogmatcism, the xenophobia, and the checklist they create for approval to Jehovah GOD.

    With that in mind lets not fall into the trap of hipocrasy by making our own.

    Is beleif in the TRINITY something that is needed for salvation?

    Do you find yourself accepting any interpretation but JW intepretations?

    Are ex-JW's still letting the WTS define thier spiritual existence?

    Is trading one target for another, and trading one interpretation for another really Spiritual Enlightment?

    Or do we find ourselves merely trading one master for another?

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Thanks for setting us all straight on the Watchtower's blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, Krettnawe.

    Oh wait, you didn't even mention anything about the topic at hand. Maybe your third post will be better. Please keep trying.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    That's what I was thinking. Nothing relevant to the topic at hand.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    The funniest part is the accusation of "buzzwords" coming from a Dub. The Dubs invented their own language as part of their mind control mechanism and they accuse "opposers" and "apostates" of using buzzwords.

  • Krettnawe
    Krettnawe

    Another Trinity discussion?

    Here, let me save you guys some time.

    Here's a hammer, here is a bowl full of Jell-o..

    Now go nail it to that tree.

    The original post is dogmatic, and is doing the same thing that many ex-JW complain about with JW's. It is pushing a beleif down the throat of others under the guise of spiritual enlightment.

    The JW's claim they are followers of Jesus Christ too. Why would they curse you for that? That is a misrepresentation. They curse you for not being in thier club anymore, and not beleiving what they beleive.

    Sorry to give some of you a big glass of reality, but, uh, many ex-JW's do the same...

    That is the point, and if you want to still be as dogmatic as the JW's in your beleifs even after you have left them then go right ahead. But, keep in mind, that to the outsider, your still being "pharasaic" and you are still "closing the heavens up" to those who dont agree with your particular interpretation.

    Dont confuse a new target, and a re-shuffle of beleifs as spiritual enlightment. Otherwise, you may just find yourself steeped in a big pile of steaming hipocrasy that never smells to you...

    Until it is pointed out.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Another Trinity discussion?

    No. No it isn't. Don't try to make it one.

    Here, let me save you guys some time. Here's a hammer, here is a bowl full of Jell-o..Now go nail it to that tree.

    Indeed.

    The original post is dogmatic, and is doing the same thing that many ex-JW complain about with JW's. It is pushing a beleif down the throat of others under the guise of spiritual enlightment.

    No, it isn't.

    The JW's claim they are followers of Jesus Christ too. Why would they curse you for that? That is a misrepresentation. They curse you for not being in thier club anymore, and not beleiving what they beleive.

    They can claim it all they want but say "praise Jesus" around one of them (or worse, a gang of them) and see what happens. Then again, this isn't really the thrust of the thread, either. It's a side point at best, a strawman at worst.

    Sorry to give some of you a big glass of reality, but, uh, many ex-JW's do the same...

    That is the point, and if you want to still be as dogmatic as the JW's in your beleifs even after you have left them then go right ahead. But, keep in mind, that to the outsider, your still being "pharasaic" and you are still "closing the heavens up" to those who dont agree with your particular interpretation.

    That is YOUR point, which has little or nothing to do with the intent of this thread. Thanks for sharing it, though. It is valid in many respects.

    Dont confuse a new target, and a re-shuffle of beleifs as spiritual enlightment. Otherwise, you may just find yourself steeped in a big pile of steaming hipocrasy that never smells to you...

    Until it is pointed out.

    Good advice for all. But why you feel it applies to sacolton still isn't clear. True, trinitarians beleive the Holy Spirit is an individual, as sacolton points out in his post, but so would any non-Christian reader of the Bible scriptures he lists.

  • spawn
    spawn

    Did someone call my name?

  • EverAStudent
    EverAStudent

    When I was having a "Bible study" with a team of Witnesses, I was surpised and flat-out dumb-founded when they told me that anyone who is "born again" and "indwelt by the Holy Spirit" is actually demon possessed.

    Then I asked them how to interpret the words of Jesus that said that you cannot even see the Kingdom of God unless you are born again--they were dumb-founded (a first for them I think).

    hen I asked them how to interpret all the various passages that say if you are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit you are not a part of Christ (see Romans 8:9-11, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 2 Timothy 1:14, James 4:5, 1 John 5:6). I am still waiting on an answer. Someone on this forum once said that JWs have an answer for everything...actually, they don't.

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