An Explanation of why TIME TRAVEL does not work

by Terry 110 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  notverylikely

  A thing itself cannot BE uncertain. A thing is what it is.

  At quantum levels, uncertainty IS a property of a thing. IOW, it will prove to be what it will prove to be. (JK about that last part).

  Sort of like the average American family as 31/2 members. Statistically possible--but--what exactly is the reality of a 1/2 person??

  Not exactly, but at the same time, sort of. Forget the question of what is the reality of 1/2 a person. Think more along the lines of having to measure a family to know how many kids are there. They have two. You only know this because you knocked on their door or called them and asked. So, you have to influence them somehow (get them to answer the door or the phone and talk to them). In doing so, you make them talk about their kids and in turn they decided to have another baby. Next time you measure a year later, they have three kids.

  Your deciding to measure influenced in such a way that it changed the state of the.Now, they might have been considering having another child before you talked to them, maybe not. We just don't know. There is the uncertainty, despite the actual measurement.

  That's not quite how things work, but just something to give you an idea.
• 

  Terry

  bluesapphire:

  The point is I know there are answers out there and someday people a lot smarter than I am (physicists, scientists ....) will find those answers. But probably not in my lifetime. And if so, then I'll be glad. the more we know the better. For me, believing in God doesn't put me in a corner. I continue to accept facts and data and learn. But there IS empty space of unknown.

  So if I want to call the empty hole of the unknown God, who cares? I know it's my opinion. And it doesn't mean I am hoping beyond all hope that no one finds any answers so I can keep believing in God. It's the exact opposite of that, actually.

  I started the topic after sitting down and thinking about Time Travel. I was thinking about Time Travel because there is always a gimmicky way of inserting it into plots of fiction to make impossible things seem vaugely possible.

  I think what happens with the public at large is that they hear about something over and over and finally take it for granted. They take it as a "given." Same thing happens with psychic ability. The public at large actually think there is such a thing as "psychic" ability.

  Anyway....

  I have no problem with anybody ___believing in____God. I just don't know what that means anymore.

  Imagine a man standing all alone in a room. You are observing the man through a one-way glass. The man is just standing there.

  Now, I have a question for you. Does this man believe in God?

  Don't laugh.

  You have no way of knowing what the man holds inside his mind. No way. You can't measure actual___belief.

  What if you ask him?

  "Sir, do you believe in God?"

  The man answers: "Yes."

  Do you trust him any more than you did? Would you let him babysit your kids?

  He could be lying. He could be telling the truth, but, be a radical terrorist who can't wait to leave the room so he can please God by blowing up the building.

  You see?

  All that is hidden inside the man's mind. Or not.

  "God" means nothing.

  It is your BEHAVIOR that is important. Not your belief.
• 

  darthfader

  It took mankind many thousands of years after inventing numbering systems to actually come up with "0" (zero) as a value to represent nothing. It's kind of like that, we have only had about 100 years to grasp the quantum world and it's impact on our everyday life. Given enough time I'm quite certian that our human minds will become comfortable with the "Uncertainty Principle" and it's various manifestations. Until then, we'll have many philosophical debates on and around the subject -- some leading to frustration.

  I found this book Quantum: A Guide For The Perplexed to be quite informative. There is a very interesting example of not just electrons and photons creating interference patterns, but complex molecules behaving the same way. [ http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-353456.html ] This just is amazing stuff :) So in these instances, these "particles" are in many places at once...

  Darth Fader -- still a bit perplexed and amazed
• 

  Terry

  Sort of like the average American family as 31/2 members. Statistically possible--but--what exactly is the reality of a 1/2 person??

  Not exactly, but at the same time, sort of. Forget the question of what is the reality of 1/2 a person. Think more along the lines of having to measure a family to know how many kids are there. They have two. You only know this because you knocked on their door or called them and asked.

  For scientists measuring data the size of the group is what gives accuracy to the statistics. However, the "reality" of the individual components might not correspond to the data. That is why we can have contradictory elements we call "duality".

  "What? You don't have one and a half kids? But, the national average is one and a half! What's a matter here? Something is weird!"
• 

  drwtsn32

  Okay, but what DO YOU MEAN when you say "there is also an inherent uncertainty"? Why do you say this? What makes you think this is so?

  Ok, I'm a bit embarrassed to say I don't remember the specifics as to why I think this way. It is how I understood QM to work from what I have read on the subject. I need to go back and re-read some things... I hate it when I forget why I think I know what I think I know.

  I really like this thread, by the way!
• 

  notverylikely

  For scientists measuring data the size of the group is what gives accuracy to the statistics. However, the "reality" of the individual components might not correspond to the data. That is why we can have contradictory elements we call "duality".

  Did that help explain the concept of uncertainty to you?
• 

  bluesapphire

  "Sir, do you believe in God?"

  The man answers: "Yes."

  Do you trust him any more than you did? Would you let him babysit your kids?

  He could be lying. He could be telling the truth, but, be a radical terrorist who can't wait to leave the room so he can please God by blowing up the building.

  You see?

  All that is hidden inside the man's mind. Or not.

  "God" means nothing.

  It is your BEHAVIOR that is important. Not your belief.

  Totally!!! It's the same with saying I'm a Christian. It's almost an embarassment with all the crap that Christians do. It's very hard for me to state my position. I believe but I don't fall into any box. And I am not a better person because of my belief. It's just my way of understanding things. Nothing more, nothing less. Christianity is also a cultural thing.
• 

  Terry

  Ok, I'm a bit embarrassed to say I don't remember the specifics as to why I think this way. It is how I understood QM to work from what I have read on the subject. I need to go back and re-read some things... I hate it when I forget why I think I know what I think I know.

  I really like this thread, by the way!

  Yep--it is wonderful to have real discussion.

  I like to question my own definitions of things and ask why I think something is true or possible or whatever.

  I still think that science fudges a great deal when they try to define : Energy.

  But, maybe I'm just too dense to understand.

  I'm familiar with all the standard attempts to define it. I just don't buy it.
• 

  notverylikely

  I'm familiar with all the standard attempts to define it. I just don't buy it.

  Which ones don't you buy?
• 

  drwtsn32

  I still think that science fudges a great deal when they try to define : Energy.
  But, maybe I'm just too dense to understand.

  Or perhaps you're just tired of the word being abused by the new agey types.

  I think of energy as just a potential to do work. Temperature, movement, radiation... all energy.