What are the most piercing questions I can ask?

by paul from cleveland 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland

    My sister is getting baptized soon. She's still talking to me but I'm sure it won't be for much longer. I've already asked her the following questions:

    Do you really think God's going to destroy mom, dad, Carolyn and me?

    Do you really think God's going to destroy millions of Chinese people and save you?

    Have you ever read the history of Watchtower INC? The people who put the INC back into Christianity?

    Does God really want us to "count our time"?

    Did you know that Russell (first pres of Watchtower Inc. The American book publishing company) measured the pyramids of Egypt to come up with the 1914 date? In fact his grave is marked by a pyramid? I've seen it myself in Pittsburgh.

    What else can I ask her to open her heart before she becomes one of the "pod people"?

    Thank you for your input.

  • ana_dote
    ana_dote

    Something that I've personally been wondering:

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that same pyramid grave marker also have the inscription "wathctower bible and tract society" on it or something? (that's awesome that you've seen it yourself...I think it would be fascinating to see it as well)

    My "question", then, is: If the "society" is so concerned with keeping all vestiges of falsehood and doubt out of their current teachings, why have they allowed their very organizations' title to be connected with pyramidology, free-masonry and thus "pagan" beliefs? If they no longer want you reading the early books of either Russel or even the WTBTS itself, creating the common yet unspoken belief among JW's that such publications should now be considered "apostate" and avoided at all costs, then why did they never change the name of their society? If the religion is not a man-made BUSINESS, as they would so adamantly refute, why did they continue to hold on to their business title from that time period?

    That may or may not be helpful toward your goal, but it's definitely a huge question that was raised in my mind when I found out about the pyramid grave marker.

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    Here are a few:

    When a married individual cheats on their mate, where in the scriptures does it say that forgiveness by the wronged mate is implied by the act of having sex with their husband/wife?
    Where in the scriptures does it say that a disfellowshipped person, in order to get reinstated, has to go through another judicial committee?

    Where does the bible detail the process of being shunned at meetings for many months before one can apply to be reinstated?
    What scripture shows that a reinstated person is to have limited privileges, such as no commenting?

    Why does Luke say to abstain from food sacrificed to idols and then Paul writes that this is a question of conscience?

    Where does the bible say that smoking or gambling are forbidden?

    Where does the bible say that sisters must not wear trousers to the kingdom hall or in service?
    Where in the scriptures does it say that men must not have beards?

    What bible verses explain which blood fractions are acceptable?

  • poopsiecakes
    poopsiecakes

    I would also add the following:

    Having been a witness for most of my life, I do know how the Watchtower explains their decisions to interpret scripture for the above teachings which is why I feel it is very important to exercise extreme caution when doing so. Otherwise, one could be accused of imposing rules and regulations that are not bible based. These rules are then subject to change, be modified or reversed completely resulting in ramifications that cannot be easily dismissed. One case in point was the reversal of the stand on organ transplants; they were acceptable, then not acceptable and a disfellowshipping offence, then a question of conscience. What of the many who refused transplants that could have saved their lives and died thinking they were doing God's will? Did God's will change? Did truth change? Do these types of changes constitute blood guilt? Did the light get brighter during the time they were considered cannibalism or dimmer?
    The same could be said for interpreting the word generation used by Jesus to indicate the time of the end. How was it truth to say that the generation applied to the anointed in 1927, then changed multiple times only to go back to this early Watchtower interpretation? Were all of these changes over the subsequent decades an indication of light getting brighter or dimmer? Does truth change? Does God change? Would a loving God inspire his people to teach his followers truths and then inspire reversals of what those truths are?

  • crazy2try
    crazy2try

    For me, it was the question. If you want so many to come to be a JW, why don't they have a sign outside of the KH that says "Welome, come in anytime!" And why don't JW's do fund raisers to help those in need outside of their KM's locally?

    I have always, had extra big heart for ones in need, and this really made me stop and think.

  • Albert Einstein
    Albert Einstein

    In the only true religion - if a child is molested by its representative - should the child be asked to provide extra witness of the deed?

    And if there is no other witness - should he/she be denied help and should he/she be ordered to shut up?

    Albert

  • Judge Dread
    Judge Dread

    Paul, instead of asking those questions, why don't you tell her where she can find what she is looking for.

    If you are going to try to undermine someone's heartfelt decision to serve God in a way THEY FEEL is right, the least you could do is provide the right path, the right place where they can find truth.

    Judge Dread

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Ask her to help you write up a list of Babylonian kings.

    See this thread:

    So my mom called me an apostate today

    Cheers

    Chris

  • HintOfLime
    HintOfLime

    I'd say... don't worry about your sister right now. Don't worry about it. Your sister is her own person, capable of finding her own way. Perhaps her way simply isn't your way.

    My first inclination was to say worry about yourself - but don't worry about yourself either. Give yourself fair time. Just.. put 'knowing' and 'truth' on hold for a bit... don't be too greedy with understanding. Be ready to come to know it over time.

    Instead, I'd suggest (and feel free to completely ignore this, I'm just a 30-year old) that you not worry about anything but instead just ask questions right now - all the questions you weren't allowed to ask or consider. Then find the answers - even if sometimes the answer is "we (humans) don't know." Read everything you can, watch documenteries... on the bible, science.. everything - and question it all. Question everything, do research on things until you are satisfied that you've either found the answers, or are reasonably confident that we just don't know yet. Sometimes the most honest answer is that we don't know.

    When I first left, I felt very challenged... that by default, I was the one that was wrong, and that I had to prove it. I don't feel that way anymore. I don't care if my family doesn't want to change. The important thing to me is - I changed. I overcame cult indoctrination, and I am proud of myself for that.

    The truth has literally set me free - not 'absolute' truth - but just honest, simple truth. We know some things. We have very strong theories on some things. We don't know some things. But no man, no "pope"... no governing body (aka "group pope") tells me they are the voice of some supposed god that knows all... and proves it by acting like a chicken with it's head cut off.

    My family has learned not to talk about it around me. And when they try to 'hint' or be 'encouraging', I call them out on it, and watch their faces turn red. I ask them if they want me to 'hint' about the accuracy of various radiometric dating methods. I ask them if I want a quiz on just where creationism and evolutionary biology fails? Just how well versed are they on both topics? If I ask them just what are the 'gaps' in our understanding of evolutionary biology... what will I tell them when they guess wrong? Or should I 'hint' at the inaccuracies of the bible or their beloved governing body and it's failed prophecies?

    To conqure them.. and to know and conqure their doubts - knowledge is the key. Knowledge is the power - and not just the 'cheap' hearsay from here, youtube, etc.. but real in-depth knowledge. The kind of stuff your average JW is too lazy to seek... and completely obliterated by.

    I know your pain... I hate to see my brother and sister waste their lives for the WT. But ultimately... that is their choice. We all choose our own paths. Perhaps it's just taking them a little longer to realize that the milk is sour. My family is inheriently introverted and fearful - they are all equally comforted by the WT teachings - free from personal responsibilty to challenge their genetic dispositions. Still, I have a feeling that before all is done, perhaps my brother, my father, or my sister will see the faulicy of it all. They are all so taken in by the idea that any matter of faith is superior to that of knowledge. It can be very challenging - my brother literally attacked me just for my respect of education and desire to someday have a degree... but I can tell they all hold their doubts. Sometimes people need to see something - and that sometimes takes time. For me, it was a real wake-up call to hear my ex-wife's personal accounts of her sexual abuse and subsequent visits to the elders as a child.

    Anyway, for your part... I say just be glad that you are free. You won. You are free. You can't change other people... just tell them what you think and let them see that you are a person.

    - Lime

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland

    Thank you. You are right. I'm going to let this go.

    Her leaving me has been part of the anxiety I've been feeling lately. But there is nothing I can do about it.

    I had lost another sister to cancer recently. We hadn't talked since I was disfellowshipped. My other brother and sister don't have a relationship either. I miss them. Being disfellowshipped is totally dehumanizing. I am just afraid of losing another sibling. It made me desperate as I think how close it is before I lose her too.

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