What I've found here

by paul from cleveland 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • yknot
    yknot

    Okay, what 'nail' do you need to put that coffin to bed?.........

    You got, an appointment myth that took dang near 30 years to set to story (not to mention it was wholly unneccesary since Russell said he had Jesus' approval since the beginning in 1874!)

    ... you have a group of occultist (yes that what were well into the 50s) who claims Jesus found them most worthy over other Xian professing sects, sects that were sola scriptura versus Russell's comments that his works were comparable to the Bible itself. All because they were expecting something in 1914 based on the measurement of the pyramids (pyramidology is occultism, a comparable present day endtime antiquity would be the Mayan Calendar...... do you think a Xian would put any 'stock' into the Mayan and New Age endtime predictions?). If you wanna fall back onto the 'refining' excuse....chew on this..... Birthdays were celebrated until October 1951 !!!!!!!

    ....you have the holy spirit denied during the most pivotal period of interpretational development, in which 'angels' are providing a gospel 'different' from that of the apostles!

    ..... and lets not forget the 'truth' and what exactly that 'truth' or gospel of the WTS is....

    *** w81 5/1 pp. 17-18 par. 3 If God Has an Organization, What Is It? ***
    3 Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really “gospel,” or “good news,” as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. (Luke 21:24) The worldwide witness given to this effect under the barrage of international persecution and opposition could have been given only by means of God’s all-conquering spirit. It was accomplished neither by the spirit of man nor by that of Satan the Devil. It was done with the help of God’s holy angels, as is indicated in Revelation 14:6, 7:

    I redirect your attention back to scripture.......,

    (Galatians 1:6-9) 6 I marvel that YOU are being so quickly removed from the One who called YOU with Christ’s undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. 7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

    (2 John 8-11) 8 Look out for yourselves, that YOU do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that YOU may obtain a full reward. 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

    (1 Timothy 1:3-7) 3 Just as I encouraged you to stay in Eph′e·sus when I was about to go my way into Mac·e·do′ni·a, so I do now, that you might command certain ones not to teach different doctrine, 4 nor to pay attention to false stories and to genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith. 5 Really the objective of this mandate is love out of a clean heart and out of a good conscience and out of faith without hypocrisy. 6 By deviating from these things certain ones have been turned aside into idle talk, 7 wanting to be teachers of law, but not perceiving either the things they are saying or the things about which they are making strong assertions.

    (1 Timothy 6:2-5) . . .. 3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, 5 violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.

    (Proverbs 11:9) 9 By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued. (Are JWs allowed to seek knowledge beyond the WTS's controlled literature, by there words do the WTS demand the giving over oneself, many times to one's own detriment (no education, no securing retirement, cutting family/social ties over disagreements with current teachings, and those continued to be cut-off even if the WTS later agrees because they are still bad for 'running ahead')

    I ask you:

    ...... Is the 'gospel' of the WTS the same as those given by the Apostles as found in the Bible? .

    ...... Has it served to bring YOU, to God through Christ as taught by the Apostles as found in the Bible?

    IF it is not the same gospel/.good news....... how does the Bible, 'God's Word' view this matter?

    _______________________________________

    Than again maybe I am in err......... maybe I have gotten too lost in the 'WTS game'..... I mean I just accidently clicked onto this site 2.5 years ago. Maybe I have be snared by Satan!..... My primary spiritual goal is still to serve Jehovah in the fullness he deserves, to bring him happiness, joy, honor and glory!

    If I am wrong (which is possible) I will do my utmost to get both of us back up to spiritual snuff, ready to rededicate ourselves to the preaching work of spreading the gospel truth of the WTS. ..... You are a talented young man and surely your skills can be used to 'benefit' bethel too! It is not too late for you to dedicate your 'youth' to serving and not to late for me to dedicate my children and retirement to serving where the need is greater!

    So whatever it is that you are still seeing as proof appointment, that Christ indeed began his paraousia/enthronement in 1914 (not 1874 and 1878) please share it with me! This after all means the difference between life and death ....

    (No I am not being 'dramatic', I am being wholly sincere)

  • paul from cleveland
    paul from cleveland

    Wow Ynot! It's going to take me a little time to sift through that post. Thank you, as always, for your wealth of knowledge.

    Just one note: I want to say I don't always feel this way. I think I've convinced myself and then fears that I'm wrong rise somewhere from the deep recesses of my mind.

  • startingover
    startingover

    Paul, I take it you haven't read Crisis of Conscience.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    I think I've convinced myself and then fears that I'm wrong rise somewhere from the deep recesses of my mind.

    I spent decades like that Paul.

    Until we fully understand that Jesus did not select the WT in 1919, we will get triggers for panic attacks. It's not something we can just grow out of, or bury in some dark recess of our minds. That is the primary doctrine that kept us in captivity. Haul it out and thrash it to death.

    Cheers

    Chris

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    I think I've convinced myself and then fears that I'm wrong rise somewhere from the deep recesses of my mind.

    Do the readings. Especially COMBATTING CULT MIND CONTROL.

    I hope these thoughts help: If the teachings of JW's are correct, then Jehovah is going to destroy innocent children because either their parents never accepted the message from two weirdos at the front door OR because they lived in a country that banned the work (community responsibility). If that group has it right, I would rather not be in that group- destroy me with those children. No pain, no suffering, no anger, just everlasting nothing.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Just one note: I want to say I don't always feel this way. I think I've convinced myself and then fears that I'm wrong rise somewhere from the deep recesses of my mind.

    Paul, once I found out that all the doctrines were a bunch of made up stories using scripture to justify them, I let everything go. I had my doubts as a teenager but it wasn't until these last couple of years that my eyes and mind were truly opened. Even my fear of demons is totally gone. I haven't had a nightmare about them since. Nor have I had any Armageddon type nightmares either. We've all been handed a bunch of lies. The only real truth is love and forgiveness.

    One thing you may consider doing is find and talk to an exit-counselor.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Paul it has been said above but Combatting Cult Mind Control is a must as is CofC and In search of Christian Freedom, in helping you to come to terms with these issues.

    Paul I really hope you are seeing a counsellor, preferably one who has experience in cult mentality. I know this can be expensive but it is an investment in your health and well being and that surely is worth the money.

    I really hope you can get through the angst you are going through as quickly as possible. We are thinking of of you.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Paul -- Are you still out there? How are you?

  • cult classic
    cult classic

    I've been thinking about you too Paul. Let us know you're ok? Someone mentioned he may be out of town.

  • noni1974
    noni1974

    I texted him a few weeks ago. He's fine. He took a break from the board that's all.

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