In as much as the Jehovah's Witnesses literature violates Russian law which grants freedom of religion but forbids religious superiority such as expressed by "God's exclusive channel of communication" the police are acting within legal authority.
RUSSIA: Raids, literature confiscations and criminal case in Tambov--first such reported home raids against them since the Soviet era--Forum 18 News Service reports
by cattails 39 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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TheOldHippie
"Therefore, the Russian government should go after the leaders…send Interpol to arrest the members of the GB and throw them in a frigid, dark, wet GULAG for their extremist propaganda and crimes"
OK, tjlibre - and who should they go after next? The Moslems, I take for granted, since they back terrorism. And various Protestant groups for refusing vaccinations etc. And various New-Age groups, not to mention the Scientologists. Christian Science because they refuse medical treatment. Of course the Communists. And the Nationalists.
Who should they NOT go after, do you think?
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tec
Start going after anyone for religious backgrounds, no matter how extremist, will eventually lead to going after any religious group that goes against the government. Its a slippery slope, even if intentions are to *protect* people at the beginning.
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Poltergeist
Look at Forum 18 slogan (http://www.forum18.org/Forum18.php):
The right to believe, to worship and witness
The right to change one's belief or religion
The right to join together and express one's beliefRight TO CHANGE OF BELIEF OR RELIGION???
Does Forum18 really know Jehovah Witness?
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Married to the Mob
IRC the original cause of this was russians authorities didn't like the anti catholic commentry and if read by a lay person would be deemed to promote religious hatred.
In light of this the russian authorities are cracking down on the distribution of the awake and watchtower. Which under the laws in russia the authorities are perfectly entitled to do. In fact, most of western europe has similar laws.
The russians haven't arrested anyone for being a dub, they aren't going to, but if you are caught distributing awake or watchtower then you are breaking the law!
As the main tool for dubs to do their "non compulsory" field service is the awake and watchtower it becomes a bit of a vicious circle!
What I find particulary funny about this, is that the tract issued by the WBTS in russia against the russian government failed to answer the only charge that has been laied against them. Promoting religious hatred! Yes they tried to dispell other issues people have against them but the truth is that they have no defence for the onyl charge against them as its TRUE!
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tjlibre
OldHippie, I see your point, but...
This is a specific case where the government is attacking a specific group of innocent people because of the extremist propaganda from a specific source. This has to be dealt in the same manner that you trample abuse, oppression, pollution and disease…you attack the source, not the victims. In this case, the Russian government should be dealing with the JW Governing Body, not with the gullible JWs. (Because a thoughtful JW will not put him/her self at risk by distributing watchtower propaganda. I’m still a JW, and I know I would not go to jail for distributing watchtower and awakes if it was illegal to do so).
Keep in mind…nobody has the authority nor the right to violate another persons freedom of speech. But if a human authority has the power to stop a group from disseminating an obviously dangerous ideology, they should do so. Because their duty is to protect the interest of their people, that’s why they were elected. That’s not to say that in some cases governments could and have abuse that power.
Members of some the groups that you mentioned are all victims of cult leaders. Real communism has never been practiced in the world; totalitarian governments hide behind that political ideology to accomplish their oppressive goals.
So answer this…should we let Sun Moon and the likes rule the world? Would you like for the members of the JW Governing Body to have a stronger influence in the government, media, and national health care? What will the world be like if Sharia Law makes its way to the USA and the rest of the Western World?
Don’t get me wrong…I’m against abuse, but lets be real here…we should not let wacky, delusional, control hungry religious (political) nuts run all nilly willy trampling on others rights.
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undercover
This is a tough one.
As people affected by the cult of the JWs we know a side of them that the average person doesn't so we can understand, if not outright condone, the actions of the Russian government based on their laws of how a religion can operate.
But to the outside world (at least in the 'free' world), non-JWs and non-Russian government, all people are going to see is a trampling of human rights.
As much as we personally may feel that the JWs set themselves up for this treatment (the leaders, not so much the followers - though they're the ones that end up suffering) it will only play into the WT's hands. It increases the persecution complex and gives them cause to cry "the end is near" even more.
I can see both sides of the issue...It's a slippery slope. Today JWs, tomorrow who? Where does it stop? But...as pointed out, the JW teachings put them in the crosshairs of the government whose laws prohibit some their messages.
I know this much...outside of this forum or amongst other 'apostates' I won't be offering much of an opinion. JWs are blinded and see only what the Society tells them. They're not going to see any other viewpoint. Try to be unbiased around them and they'll freak out over your lack of concern over Jah's people over there. Non-JWs, for the most part, are seeing a return to the old USSR way of doing things and are prejudiced against anything that smacks of denial of rights, so you're not going to win any friends trying to explain anything to them either.
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Gayle
The GB know all about this. They don't care what the Russian JWs are going through. The GB sell their multi-million dollar properties and get free labor and build brand new buildings with paradasic grounds and decor in upstate New York. (I wish we could get those pictures to the Russian JWs as they scrounge to exist). They will only exploit the Russian JWs circumstances to guilt the rest of JWs worldwide that they should be getting out JW literature since they are 'free' to do so.
I feel very sorry for the JW children there (and all JW children worldwide).
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jehovahsheep
once again i will say i reject many of the watchtower doctrine and all muslim doctrine-but i defend their right to practice their beliefs.do you also want to judge everything aperson believes /russia is such a beacon of freedom-what a wonderful place to live!
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donuthole
I'm not suggesting the Russian law is perfect - but the intent is to guarantee freedom of religion for all citizens by preventing any one religion from limiting, restricting, or otherwise interfering with the religious freedoms of others.
In as much as the Watchtower literature (and the Organization by extension) limits the religious freedoms of members and adversely affects families, the Russian government has declared their literature illegal. Here is just one example of how the JW's violate Russian law - they teach that they are the only true religion and if you have disagreements or wish to leave and pursue another religion the organization will enforce shunning, even among your family. They are thereby interfering with your freedom of religion.
I know the Organization likes to wave the banner of civil liberties but they do not give their own people the same liberties.