The Pagan Christ (page 5)

poopsiecakes

Thanks, meeting junkie - that would be great!

PSacramento

I don't think either one of us is hoping to "convert" the other so, while we may not agree on all parts, I think we are both enjying the debate.

I know I am.

As a moderate and a christian that basis his faith on reason as much as on faith, I don't have a problem admiting when I am wrong and I don't know and where my reason ends and my faith starts, at least I try ot be honest about, as honest as I can be.

As a moderate I am also "beaten up" reguarly form BOTH sides of the arguments, from the fundamentalist side and the "atheist" side.

That's ok, I used to box, I am used to getting beat up :)

PSacramento

People.

People with something to gain by controlling other people.

Meeting Junkie No More

Poopsie - where do you get those emoticons? I love them!

poopsiecakes

Different message boards - fun huh?

OnTheWayOut

Zietgeist and The Pagan Christ do use some wild speculations, but I wouldn't outright call them "false" unless I was allowed to say the claims in the Bible about Jesus are "false" claims. There may or may not have been a Jesus, son of Joseph (or raised by Joseph after Mary got pregnant). But the stories of the Christ are pretty clearly taken from pagan religions. Where they differ, that is where they changed or merged ideas.

I don't worry about it so much. I was able to dismiss the Bible to my satisfaction. If Jesus was a Jew, he followed the Bible. End of my concern.

notverylikely

I don't think either one of us is hoping to "convert" the other so, while we may not agree on all parts, I think we are both enjying the debate.

I know I am.

Ditto. And I never get upset about these things. Although I know I DO have an agressive style of debate, there is never any agression or anger behind it, so if it seems like I am going for the jugular....I probably am, but not in an angry way. I'm like a shark, I'll back down if you punch me in the nose and fight back a little

People with something to gain by controlling other people.

Completely agree. It almost never fails....follow the money, power and sex and you'll get the answer usually.

If Jesus was a Jew, he followed the Bible.

The bible didn't exist until 300 years after he was dead, and even then, the "canonical" bible established after the Synod of Hippo was vastly different from the bible that exists today (after the Council of Trent).

tec

Sorry, PSac... had to go to work or I would have joined you in the debate; though as I said, I have done no research into the 'did the christian movement hinder science' topic. You seem to be holding your own anyway.

I only mentioned oriental nations, because I was trying to stay away from any specific God/creator thing. Jehovah, Allah, etc. Eastern/western mindsets are different when it comes to spirituality.

OTWO - No disrespect here, at all. Honest. But I can and do call the claims of the Zeitgeist and Pagan Christ - as well as other Christ-mythers- false. I can and do call them false outright. Some say that the claims about Jesus' life and existence are false claims, but these are speculation as to lack of evidence and cannot be proven false.

Any Christian or non-Christian with five minutes to spare can look up and see that Christ was not born on December 25th. Pagans brought this date into Christianity.

So this date... often stated as the number one comparison for Jesus being a mythical god-man like so many others... is FALSE. Even the god-men that Christ-myth'ers are trying to pad their argument with by saying they were also celebrated on December 25th, are false. Most of those myths make no mention at all of the date of birth. Which simply makes the false claim even worse.

Let's take the *Virgin* Isis and her son Horace, since she was mentioned earlier.

Check the unbiased writings -not the ones where someone is trying to prove or disprove a connection with Jesus - and you will read that Isis searched the world for her husband, Osiris's, dismembered body and:

a)put his body back together and had sex with it, or

b) found only his phallus (or made one herself) and had sex with that.

How does this compare in any way with Jesus? At best, it is a paranormal conception - but why do Christ-mythers feel the need to pad their information with false claims? Can't those claims stand on their own with just the facts?

Sorry, poopsiecakes. I know you've read what I've had to say on other thread. I'm only addressing claims made on this thread.

I also sincerely apologize if my tone comes off as being angry. I absolutely do respect people's opinions and beliefs and personal searches. But I do take to heart those people who are pushing their agendas and attacking faith by using lies.

Tec

poopsiecakes

Tec, I appreciate your posts - it's always good to have all sides of a discussion like this one. What it boils down to, in my opinion, is that nobody really knows for sure. There are sound arguments on both sides and that's what makes it interesting. One thing about this author though (and the other scholar in the documentary supporting his position) is that they were both religious men who were looking for archeological and secular proof of Jesus' existence. They were shocked by their findings. So there were no preconceived agendas they were working from, according to them.

notverylikely

sigh....

Some say that the claims about Jesus' life and existence are false claims, but these are speculation as to lack of evidence and cannot be proven false.

Debate 101 - If you make a claim (such as the claims about Jesus life are true) then the burden of proof lies on you. It does NOT lie on someone else to prove it false. Think of it like court. If a prosecutor says "this person committed a crime" the burden of proof is on them, not on the defense. The defense doesn't have to prove the defendant DIDN'T do it, the prosecution (the people making the assertion) have to prove it true.

Let's take the *Virgin* Isis and her son Horace, since she was mentioned earlier.

The older Mithraic myth from Persia (not the Roman myth that had him springing from a rock) has a virgin birth for Mithras.

but why do Christ-mythers feel the need to pad their information with false claims? Can't those claims stand on their own with just the facts?

If that's the standard we are using them then claims of Jesus birth (the census), geneaology, life, miracles, existence and divinity are sketchy at best.

But I do take to heart those people who are pushing their agendas and attacking faith by using lies.

You do realize that pretty much every sect of Christianity has accused every other sect of the same thing? I mean, the Christian faith isn't even internally consistent. It seems.....ironic?

The Pagan Christ

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