Abaddon - Re: WASPs

by borgfree 37 Replies latest jw friends

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  borgfree

  jst_me'

  You said "I agree that our country is being pulled apart...but that is because those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Until the injustices that were handed out to our people are brought to light, until people recognize that there are consequences for enslaving people and attempting to erase the memory of people in order to preserve some silly american mission statement....this country will never be able to unite. It is as simple as that."

  I say; Well, so much for "learning from history"

  Borgfree

  "Without knowledge there can be no genuine faith--only superstition on the one hand or speculation on the other" Robert Banks
• 

  LDH

  Just Me: here is a brief history of the Cherokee Nation. In particular, I direct your attention to the year 1961. Is that enough?

  1540 - The Spanish explorer, Hernando De Soto and his party are the first whites seen by the Cherokees.
  1629 - The first traders from the English settlements began trading among the Cherokees.

  1721 - The Cherokee Treaty with the Governor of the Carolinas is thought to be the first consession of land.

  1785 - Treaty of Hopewell is the first treaty between the U.S. and the Cherokees.

  1791 - Treaty of Holston signed. Includes a call for the U.S. to advance civilization of the Cherokees by giving them farm tools and technical advice.

  1802 - Jefferson signs Goergia Compact.

  1817 - Treaty makes exchange for land in Arkansas. Old settlers begin voluntary migration and establish a government there. In 1828, they are forced to move into Indian territory.

  1821 - Sequoyah's Cherokee Syllabary completed, quickly leads to almost total literacy among the Cherokees.

  1822 - Cherokee's Supreme Court established.

  1824 - First written law of Western Cherokees.

  1825 - New Echota, GA authorized as Cherokee capital.

  1827 - Modern Cherokee Nation begins with Cherokee Constitution established by a convention; John Ross elected chief.

  1828 - Cherokee Phoenix published in English and Cherokee; Andrew Jackson elected President. Gold discovered in Georgia.

  1828-1830 - Georgia Legislature abolishes tribal government and expands authority over Cherokee country.

  1832 - US Supreme Court decision Worcester vs Georgia establishes tribal sovereignty, protects Cherokees from Georgia laws. Jackson won't enforce decision and Georgia holds lottery for Cherokee lands.

  1835 - Treaty Party signs Treaty of New Echota, giving up title to all Cherokee lands in southeast in exchange for land in Indian Territory (now Oklahoma.).

  1838-1839 - Trails of Tears. US Government's forced removal of 17,000 Cherokees, in defiance of Supreme Court decision. More than 4,000 die from exposure and disease along the way.

  1839 - Assassination of Treaty Party leaders, Major Ridge, John Ridge, and Elias Boudinot for breaking pact not to sign Treaty of New Echota. Factionalism continues until 1846. New constitution ratified at convention uniting Cherokees arriving from the east with those in the west.

  1844 Cherokee Supreme Court building opens; Cherokee Advocate becomes the first newspaper in Indian territory.

  1851 - Cherokee male and female seminaries open. Female seminary is the first secondary school for girls west of the Mississippi.

  1859 - Original Keetoowah Society organized to maintain traditions and fight slavery.

  1860 - Tension mounts between Union Cherokees and Confederate Cherokees. Civil War begins.

  1861 - Treaty signed at Park Hill between Cherokee Nation and the Confederate government. Cherokee Nation torn by border warfare throughout the Civil War.

  1865-1866 - Cherokee must negotiate peace with the US Government. New treaty limits tribal land rights, eliminates possibility of Cherokee State and is prelude to Dawes Commission. John Ross dies.

  1887 - General Allotment Act passed; requires individual ownership of lands once held in common by Indian tribes.

  1889 - Unassigned lands in Indian Territory opened by white settlers known as "boomers."

  1890 - Oklahoma Territory organized out of western half of Indian Territory.

  1893 - Cherokee Outlet opened for white settlers.Dawes Commission arrives.

  1898 - Curtis Act passed abolishing tribal courts.

  1903 - W.C. Rogers becomes last elected chief for 69 years.

  1905 - Land allotment begins after official roll taken of Cherokees.

  1907 - Oklahoma statehood combines Indian and Oklahoma Territories and dissolves tribal government.

  1917 - William C. Rogers, the last Cherokee Chief, dies.

  1934 - Indian Reorganization Act established a landbase for tribes and legal structure for self government.

  1948 - Chief J.B.Milam calls Cherokee Convention; beginning of model tribal government of the Cherokee Nation.

  1949 - W.W. Bill Keeler appointed chief by President Harry Truman.

  1957 - First Cherokee National Holiday.

  1961 - Cherokees awarded 15 million dollars by the US Claims Commission for Cherokee Outlet Lands.

  1963 - Cherokee National Historical Society founded. CNHS opens Ancient Village, 1967; Trail of Tears Drama, 1969, and museum, 1975.

  1967 - Cherokee Foundation formed to purchase land on which the tribal complex now sits.

  1970 - U.S. Supreme Court ruling confirms Cherokee Nation ownership of bed and banks of 96 mile segment of Arkansas Riverbed.

  1971 - W.W.Keeler becomes first elected principal chief since statehood.

  1975 - Ross O. Swimmer elected to first of three terms as principal chief. First Cherokee Tribal Council elected Congress passes Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act.

  1976 - Cherokee voters ratify new Constitution outlining tribal government.

  1979 - Tribal offices moved into modern new complex South of Tahlequah.

  1984 - First joint council meeting in 146 years between Eastern Band of Cherokees and Cherokee Nation held at Red Clay, TN. Council meetings now held bi-annually.

  1987 - Wilma Mankiller makes history and draws international attention to tribe as first woman elected chief; Cherokee voters pass constitution amendment to elect council by districts in 1991.

  1988 - Cherokee Nation joins Eastern Band in Cherokee, NC to commemorate beginning of The Trail of Tears.

  1989 - The Cherokee Nation observes 150th anniversary of arrival in Indian Territory. "A New Beginning".

  1990 - Chief Mankiller signs the historic self-governance agreement, making the Cherokee Nation one of six tribes to participate in the self-determination project. The project, which ran for three years beginning Oct.1 1990, authorized the tribe to assume tribal responsiblity for BIA funds which were formerly being spent on the tribe's behalf at the agency, area and central office levels.

  1991 - In the July tribal election the first council to be elected by districts since statehood and Wilma Mankiller won second elected term as principal chief with a landslide 82% of the votes cast.

  1995 - Joe Byrd and Garland Eagle elected principal chief and deputy chief which marks the first time in nearly 200 years that full blood bilingual leaders occupy the top positions of the Cherokee Nation.

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Lisa
  Wish I had a part of that $15 million Class
• 

  Abaddon

  Hey Just Me; good to see you here. I've kind of avoided getting stuck too deep in this thread, as other than the initial point (re. WASPS), it was, as I said, a debate accross a political divide that I saw neither party crossing.

  I did think of you funnily enough, and then you pop up!!

  Hope life (and living with Yankees) is treating you well...

  As to the topic... it's one of those things that makes me itch;

  "Okay, we stole your land, deported you to hostile environments, infected you with disease, starved you, attacked women and children as well as braves, ridiculed you, stole your icons and images... here, $15 million will make it all better..."

  I think people who think just because reparations have (in some cases) been made that it is 'all over' should think how they would feel if their great-grand parents had been hunted like animals, their grand-parents marginalised, and their parents discriminated against.

  I think they would NOT think it all over, or that the 'poor white male' (this sentence alone is hysterical, as compared to ANY other racial or gender group, the 'poor' white male has the least to bitch about) was unfairly discriminated against, and would be as active as the people to which it actually happened.

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
• 

  borgfree

  Let me see if I understand what seems to be promoted by some posting here, and a lot of others who think just like them.

  Many years ago some evil white Europeans came from a backward continent…..

  Quote jst_me: “I would never say that they lived in horrid conditions at contact (Indian nations had a better standard of living than any of the European nations at that time), nor would I say that the reasons our lands were lost to the Americans is because we couldn't hold them.”….

  So the white Europeans crossed an ocean and landed on a continent inhabited by some peaceable, advanced, disease free, war free, all around good-guy people who wouldn’t harm a fly.

  These evil white devils set about settling the new continent by bringing in shiploads of other evil white devils who were not able to do any work so they invaded another continent to kidnap some other people* (*for a description of those people, see paragraph above) to do all of their work (and thinking) for them.

  Now the kind generous, healthy, prosperous, advanced (more than European) gentle, hard working, wouldn’t hurt a fly, etc., etc. people were constantly under attack by these evil white devils (lets call them EWDs for short) The gentle people, etc., ( lets call them angels for short) were forced to move to smaller and smaller areas of their OWN country (aka world power)

  Now those angels were so gentle that they would not even consider fighting back, certainly not if they had to use weapons, as they only had an arsenal of pillows, even though, they had obviously invented nuclear energy centuries earlier.

  But, at this point let’s return to the people who were kidnapped from their own beautiful, advanced, (no doubt more than Europe) heavenly, war free, disease free, (they had probably already invented penicillin decades earlier) continent. Those EWDs marched through heaven and took all of the angelic people they chose, to turn them into slaves to do the work of the EWDs.

  This history could get very long so lets just imagine the next couple of hundred years, it’s really easy to do.

  Now in the year 2002 the descendants of those angels cannot possibly leave all of the wrongs done to their ancestors in the past, oh no, that would not be very angelic. So those descendants have a plan, they will do everything in their power to out populate those EWDs and even demand more and more immigration rights for every other non-EWD possible so that some day the angels will be a majority instead of a minority and then they can create a new heaven just like the one their ancestors were stolen from.

  Anyone in favor of hell?

  Borgfree

  "Without knowledge there can be no genuine faith--only superstition on the one hand or speculation on the other" Robert Banks
• 

  jst_me

  LDH,

  That was a nice overview of my nation's history beginning from contact, but it is just recent history.

  As far as the claim you bolded in red, I am not sure what your point is. The Indian Claims Commission was established as the result of an act of Congress in 1946. It made it possible for tribes to sue the US for any lands that the fed govt had taken based on aboriginal title. Aboriginal title is the concept that where Indian tribes had lived on and used the land to the exclusion of others they had a right to occupancy, and the land could only be sold to outside parties subject to that Indian right of occupancy.

  The Indian Claims Commission Act authorized recovery of aborigianl lands based on 3 rules: treaties were revised based on fraud, the US govt took land without fair compensation, or claims based on fair dealings are not recognized by any rule of law.

  Now, the Cherokee Outlet lands were the Indian Territory in Oklahoma. These lands in Oklahoma had been promised in a treaty signed by Andrew Jackson that if the Cherokees would get the heck out of their homeland, they could have these lands for as long as the river flows, as long as the grass grows, as long as the wind blows. Or until more land was needed for settlers as the case turned out. The Cherokee Outlet is a piece of land that is 8,144,722.35 acres wide. The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma was left with about seven million acres of land. So, this was a big deal, half of the land that was promised by treaty to the Cherokee nation, land that was payment for them leaving their homeland in GA, NC, AL, and TN, was taken back. The new act that took the Outlet gave them $1.40 per acre.

  Once the Indian Claims Commission was in place, the Cherokee Nation was able to sue for the underpayment of the land, and recieved 15 million dollars which represented a 2/3 undervaluation at the time of the forced sale in 1893. What the nation was not allowed to collect was interest, which would have been condiderable. The court found in their favor because the sale took place under duress.

  Now, my family never went to OK. My family is from Georgia. It is interesting that you can highlight the date that the US tried to make ammends for a small tract of land with a very nominal amount of money, and completely overlook the reasons why there are any Cherokee people in Oklahoma at all. Now that is an interesting story from a legal perspective, let me tell ya.

  I got some of the amts and dates and that from this website:

  http://www.chadsmith.com/outlet.html
• 

  LDH

  Abaddon and Jst,

  You guys BOTH make my point! No amount of money soothes hurt, only time. And maybe learning from it.

  Jst, my point with the whole Cherokee thing, What could possibly make it all better? The $15 million was just a bandaid on an open festering wound. But do the descendents of wrongdoers have to pay FOREVER?

  What about the tribes that the Cherokee warred with? Why, suspiciously, is everyone who claims to be part native a 'Cherokee?'
• 

  LDH

  Sorry guys will finish my thought tomorrow, baby beckons....

  Lisa
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  borgfree

  Lisa,

  Cherokee is what my father told me. But, if I get to choose, I'll take Comanche or maybe Apache.

  Borgfree

  "Without knowledge there can be no genuine faith--only superstition on the one hand or speculation on the other" Robert Banks