WHEN is a simple question--but, the Bible just can't help us answer

by Terry 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    I took the trouble to look up the history of posts and topics started by Jonathan Dough out of curiousity.

    Usually the posters here are more engaging of ideas and less quick to simply do catcalls.

    Looks like Mr.Dough is a shill for a mainstream anti-JW site. From the various comments I've read from him it is pretty clear

    he has an agenda.

    I don't mind anybody at any time taking issue with something I've said that is in error, especially if I have my facts wrong.

    Otherwise, it isn't all that productive to make personal remarks.

    I think Jonathan Dough should "come out" and we'll discuss his real issues.

    I'd love to talk about the Bible with him and see his facts.

    What about Mr. Dough?

  • thetrueone
    thetrueone

    Disregard J.Dough ad-homiem attack Terry, if he had an apposing argument against your information he would post it with pride,

    he obviously doesn't. People like yourself can easily lower his intellectual platitude and knowledge easily and your fustrating him

    to no ends.

  • Terry
    Terry

    ......anybody seen Perry lately??

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    I list the ones that meant the most to me:
    TEN PHILOSOPHICAL MISTAKES Mortimer J. Adler
    THE HISTORY OF GOD Karen Armstrong
    WHO WROTE THE BIBLE Richard J. Friedman
    MISQUOTING JESUS Bart Ehrman
    ARISTOTLE'S CHILDREN Richard E. Rubenstein

    I read a few of those already, but thanks for the rest.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Right now I'm reading a very thought-provoking book titled HEBREW THOUGHT COMPARED WITH GREEK by Thorleif Boman

    The so-called "old" Testament was predominantly Hebrew thought, philosophy, ethos and sensibility. The New Testament was Greek.

    This book gives a lucid and penetrating insight into the mindset of a thinking person's sense of Time and Space and culture and religion through the expression of thought in those languages.

    Here is a PDF of the book: [PDF]

    Hebrew Vs. Greek Thinking

    Here is an academic review:

    Hebrew Thought Compared With Greek
    By Thorlief Boman
    224 pp. Philadelphia, Westminster Press, 1960. $4.50.

    From time to time a book appears which is seminal in its importance. This may be the case even when much that it has to say is not original, and its subject matter has already been debated both internationally and over decades. Boman's book, I believe, is of this caliber. He is a wise author, for two reasons. Firstly, his book appeared in its original German version six years ago, so he has been able to take advantage of suggestions and criticisms made before the edition we now possess was put into English translation. So now we have his mature thoughts. Secondly, the world of Biblical scholarship is at present realizing that the study of semantics is quite as important as the study of philology; thus Boman has struck while the iron is hot. But apart from those advantages, Boman's very competent handling of his material, revealing an acute understanding of both our Greek and our Hebraic heritage, is put to such excellent use that his resultant thesis ought to be required reading for systematic theologians equally with Biblical students. Jules Moreau has greatly contributed to the clarity of the exposition, since what is sometimes quite difficult subject matter is always clear, and never carries a translation smell.

    Boman perhaps shakes us in his introduction by declaring that Platonism and the Hebrew view of life are related essentially and support joint values. The decisive and self-evident fact is not the antithesis but the unity of thought they share. On the other hand, until he compares both fields with the negation of thought in Buddhism, one is more aware of Boman's diligence in delineating the differences between the two rather than their similarities.

    Fortunately, Boman spends most of his time on a fresh and incisive discussion of Hebraic modes of thought, because of course many interpreters throughout the centuries have analyzed the Greek modes. And even though Boman frankly goes back to authorities of fifty or a hundred years ago, such as Orelli, R. Blake, G. R. Driver, I. Bursztyn, what he has to say is always fresh and incisive and fully up-to-date in its presentation.

    His wise insistence on a study of the meanings of words offers the student with a general interest in the Old Testament a host of fascinating examples of the vitality of Hebrew thinking. Outstanding are his discussions of the concept of "being" and of the vitality of the "word." All his conclusions are of importance theologically. In his discussion on the concept of "being," he shows (1) that logical "being" is expressed in Hebrew by the mere juxtaposition of two nouns, so that the equation


    255 - Hebrew Thought Compared With Greek

    AB means A is B; (2) that the verb hayah rather means "become" than "be," both with and without supplementary prepositions; (3) that thus hayah may have to be translated by "come…. come forth," or other equally vital verb. "The being of things is not the same as panpsychism, but rather 'being' is pre-eminently personal being." A person therefore is not "is," but "becomes," just because he lives. The importance of this fact when applied to the living God is evident, since God's Being is "being to effect," as we see at historical moments like that of the Exodus, and these in turn must bear a content with a promise for the future.

    This "dynamism" is something unknown to the Greek mind, as Boman shows in a discussion of the Eleatic, Heraclitean, and Platonic schools, though the Hebrews shared the concept of the dynamic power of the Word with the whole ancient Near East. Yet even here the Hebrews were unique. The Babylonians supposed the Word to be an etherial substance; the Egyptians regarded it as a fluid issuing from the mouth of the god, so that they had no doctrine of creation, but merely of emanation. Unfortunately Boman does not at this point enter the realm of study introduced to us by Rendel Harris in The Origin of the Prologue to the Fourth Gospel (1917) where he examines the parallel concept of sophia. But Boman gives us an excellent excursus on the Song of Songs, basing his exegesis upon the discussion of another topic, that of "Impression and Appearance," a chapter so rich that no summary could do it justice. Finally, there are valuable discussions of the concepts of Time and Space in the two civilizations, and of Symbolism and instrumentalism, as he names his topics. The last chapter contains an excursus on a theme that needs attention, what Boman calls the "missing dimension" in God's relationship to the world, namely, "transparence." This is a concept which Paul holds in the balance with transcendence and immanence in Eph. 4:6.

    A book not to borrow, but to buy, mark, and inwardly digest.

    George A. F. Knight
    McCormick Theological Seminary

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    There are many questions of a theological nature that the Bible can't answer. Just to cite a few:

    How does one perform a baptism?

    How does one confer the gift of the Holy Spirit?

    How does one ordain? And to what offices?

    How is the church to be organized? What offices have ascendancy over other offices?

    Who can baptize?

    What are the "mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven"?

    The Bible is full of information, but it's not a handbook (as many apparently think). We hear of ordinances taking place and we know of various offices within the church, but we don't know anything about the above.

    Some people believe that all books of scripture are equal in value, but that's not true. Ecclesiastes is often cited to show that there's no surviving of death as a spirit, but Ecclesiastes was not written by a prophet, neither was it as eschatalogical writing. It is a philosophical writing. Does "spirit" mean "breath" as some teach? Yes, but it also can mean "spirit." So one is back at the drawing board. Peter mentions removing the body as one removes a coat. And there are numerous stories of "life after life" that remain unexplained where correct information is conveyed by spirits that could not be explained by medical brain functions as one nears death.

    Witnesses and every other religion just about acknowledges that no scripture is of any private interpretation, but then they go and privately interpret it. But what choice do they have? If the JW leadership has the authority to administer church functions and ordinances, where did they get that authority? How can any of them ordain unless they've been ordained. The sad truth is that someone one day got out of bed and went and ordained someone else, and they did it with not one whit of authority. Then that person went out and ordained, and so it went.

    History is said to be a pack of lies agreed upon. The fact is, theology often is a collection of dogma agreed upon, and heaven help you if you don't jump on the band wagon. Remember, if someone excommunicates you, then you might consider turning around and returning the favor. Chances are very high that they have no more authority than do you and vice versa. I think that's what Christ meant when he said that the blind try to lead the blind.

  • Terry
    Terry

    History is said to be a pack of lies agreed upon. The fact is, theology often is a collection of dogma agreed upon, and heaven help you if you don't jump on the band wagon. Remember, if someone excommunicates you, then you might consider turning around and returning the favor. Chances are very high that they have no more authority than do you and vice versa. I think that's what Christ meant when he said that the blind try to lead the blind.

    Well said!

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit