If I remember right from the Vietnam era, jws were not told to declare themselves as conscienctious objectors but to ask to be deferred under the IV-D minister classification. So jws were not COs.
HELP! Future soldier looking to join!
by megawatt 48 Replies latest jw experiences
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sir82
the Watchtower in those days actually encouraged young men to fight for their country.
Really? I'd be interested in seeing any quotes on this - I've not seen one to date. Of course, there are thousands of WT pages I've never read.
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cyberjesus
So you wanted only answers from pro-military ex-JWs? Oh I get it.
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JWoods
Do what you think is right on your military career.
Many of the anti-war and leftist people here on this site are still being influenced by the JW antiwar teachings - teachings which are notably phony when you consider that the JWs think that their god is soon going to make war on earth and kill everybody here except witnesses.
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PSacramento
If you truly wish to serve your country in the military, I would suggest the Medical corps.
Killing is easy, saving lives is what true heroes do.
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blondie
A thought occured to me while reading the March 15, 1996 The Watchtower. It has to do with what is written on pages 16 and 17, paragraph 9 of the article "Meeting the Challenge of Loyalty":
9 We now come to the matter of being loyal to Jehovah's visible organization. Certainly, we owe loyalty to it, including "the faithful and discreet slave," through which the Christian congregation is fed spiritually (Matthew 24:45-47) Suppose that something appears in Watch Tower publications that we do not understand or agree with at the moment. What will we do? Take offense and leave the organization? That is what some did when The Watch Tower, many years ago, applied the new covenant to the Millennium. Others took offense at what The Watchtower once said on the issue of neutrality. If those who stumbled over these matters had been loyal to the organization and to their brothers, they would have waited on Jehovah to clarify these matters, which he did in his due time. Thus, loyalty includes waiting patiently until further understanding is published by the faithful and discreet slave.
The part about "Others took offense at what The Watchtower once said about neutrality" refers to the Standfasters who broke away because the Watch Tower said that it was okay to buy war bonds and encouraged the Bible Students to support the National Day of Prayer for the victory of the allies in WWI. The 3/15/96 Watchtower is basically saying that the Standfasters should have loyally stayed with the organization until Jehovah clarified the matter.
The Watchtower prides itself in having been “neutral” during World War I when Jesus was allegedly conducting His inspection of its organization. (See Knowledge That Leads to Eternal Life, pp. 160-161) Yet, the May 15th and June 1st issues of the 1918 Watchtower encouraged Jehovah’s Witnesses to purchase “Liberty Loans” which helped to fund US involvement in World War I.
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JWoods
If I remember right from the Vietnam era, jws were not told to declare themselves as conscienctious objectors but to ask to be deferred under the IV-D minister classification. So jws were not COs.
This is correct. JW men my age would have been considered as DAd persons if they accepted an assignment as a CO in the military - except - if they refused induction and the court sentenced them to CO service: inexplicably, in that circumstance, the same non-combatant service (usually in some VA hospital) was considered acceptable. Ironically, hardly and JW men of Vietnam draft age ever got the IV-D classification - this was mainly due to the fact that the official JW teaching is that they have no professional trained clergy.
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dissed
Blondie - Regarding draft status?
As one who had to fight with the draft board, this was my conclusion as well. The WTS felt there was a better chance of getting a 4 D (Minister status) than a CO. To get the 4D you had to be a Reg. Pioneer to be recognized as a Minister. Very tough to get the 4D if you were not Reg. Pioneering. Even Elder status would not guarantee 4D.
All my friends that Pioneered got there 4D, those who tried the CO route failed and went to prison.
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JWoods
Dissed, what I remember about the VietNam era draft was that a CO status still let the military call you up - but that you would not be put into a combat situation. You would be put into a noncombatant alternative service - and the WTS would not permit you to do that and stay a witness.
If you were left status 1A and drafted, refused service, went to federal trial and were ordered to do noncombatant service, that was OK with the WTS. The WTS also forbid us to state that they were telling us what to do about the draft - we were to tell the draft board that everything was all our own idea. (to protect them from liability) EDIT to say - very few federal judges sentenced JWs to alternative service: most at the time sent them straight to Federal prison for the full 5 years with a felony conviction on their record.
I eventually got a 4D because I was a pioneer, but pioneering was no guarantee to get one. It only lasted about 3 months, and then the Nixon draft lottery came in and I got a very high number - so finished out the draft age as not being called due to the lottery.
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dissed
JWoods -
I'm talking toward the end of the draft when the draft boards were getting more lenient in classifications.
And on CO classification? A friend of mine was assigned to non-military duty by the courts. So you are right, "if" you were ordered to do it, it was okay to do the duty, but "if" you did it voluntary, you were disciplined??? (as he scratches his head in disbelief)