Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs

by Mad Sweeney 508 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  PSacramento

  PS- Jesus has the position ("Voice") of Archangel; he didn't take it away from someone else. There is God, angels/messengers, and man. Jesus is NOT the Almighty, thus is a mighty spirit being...an ANGEL- the greatest of them all (Heb 1:9)

  I think you need to re-read 1Thessalonians and Hebrews because you don't seem to undestand what is being written there NOR the fact that what Paul makes far more clear in the Colosians and Philipians.

  Allow me to make it even more clear:

  14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, d who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

  15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” 16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, e f who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

  and:

  14 And z the Word a became flesh and b dwelt among us, c and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of d grace and e truth. 15 ( f John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, g ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’ ”) 16 And from h his fullness we have all received, i grace upon grace. 17 For j the law was given through Moses; k grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 l No one has ever seen God; m the only God, 4 who is at the Father’s side, 5 n he has made him known.

  and:

  9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that n God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.

  and:

  23 d “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,

  and they shall call his name e Immanuel”

  (which means, God f with us).

  There is more, of course, but NO WHERE do you find any claims that Jesus is an archangel.
• 

  mrsjones5

  James 2:14-26

  " 14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

  1 8 But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
  Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

  19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

  20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless [a] ? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," [b] and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

  25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."

  You are saved by faith and your faith reflects in your deeds/works...no one is saved by deeds/works.
• 

  PSacramento

  RE: 1 Thessalonians,

  This has been expalined over and over, so lets try it again:

  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

  In Greek:

  ?τι α?τ?ς ? κ?ριος ?ν κελε?σματι ?ν φων? ?ρχαγγ?λου κα? ?ν σ?λπιγγι θεο? καταβ?σεται ?π? ο?ρανο? κα? ο? νεκρο? ?ν Χριστ? ?ναστ?σονται πρ?τον

  We have:

  one of two explanations:

  1) Jesus will descend with the following signs/events: A shout, a voice or sound ( same word) of archangel ( there is no An or THE in the greek text) and with the sound of a trumpet.

  or

  2) Jesus IS the shout, the voice or sound of archangel and the trumpt of God.

  The structure of the verse allows Jesus to decend with those signs, all of them, or BE those signs, ALL of them.

  Which one is it?
• 

  theMadJW

  Of COURSE, MrsJones- buuut if you HAVE no good works, you have no REAL faith! You can't seperate the two!
• 

  theMadJW

  NO one can speak with the Authority of Archangel without having that position.

  Does God speak withthe voice of the archangel?

  What about Casper the Ghost-God?
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  mrsjones5

  Depends on what you think "works" are. I believe by being a good person, wife, mother, and friend and doing things related to that (works if you please) I show my faith. There is nothing I can do to be saved except to have faith. I am not Christ.
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  Mary, that is because of 2 things; at that time there was no Greek equivalent, and the NT are copies of the originals, where, once again, Judiasm influenced people to use "LORD" instead. Do YOU think that Jesus, reading from Isaiah in the synagogue replaced "Yahweh" with "LORD"?

  I think this one's for me, not Mary.

  re: "no Greek equivalent" of the name of the Jewish god: Since this was the case, why do you assume Jesus used the name, despite NO evidence that he did?

  re: "the NT are copies of the originals": Then on what basis do you put any faith in them at all? Do you know WHO made the copies or WHEN or what connection the copies have to the supposed originals?

  re: "once again, Judaism influenced people to use "LORD" instead": Judaism influenced CHRISTIAN COPYISTS of NT books and letters? Really? Come on!

  The one making the assertion needs to prove it. I don't need to prove something didn't happen, YOU need to prove that it DID.
• 

  dissed

  Great thread idea but being hijacked...too bad
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  Mad Sweeney

  Thanks. I started the thread and even let myself be sidetracked.

  I still think Revelation 19:1 is one of the biggies. It was instrumental in opening my wife's eyes.
• 

  theMadJW

  God's Name is in the OT over 6,500 times- as you should know. To pretend it doesn't exist, ot that it isn't his name anymore since it is not in the NT is ignorant.

  Exodus 3:15- And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel,

  Jehovah,

  the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:

  this is my name

  forever,

  and this is my memorial unto all generations.