by Mad Sweeney 508 Replies latest watchtower bible
John 10:16 speaks of the "other sheep" which most religions identify with the Gentiles. JW's say the Other Sheep and the Great Crowd of Rev 7 are one and the same. Yet there is absolutely no proof of this other the fact that J F Rutherford said so!
George
Thank you designs and TTWSYF. We do need to examine the larger problem of letting others--not only the WTS-- demand a formula for faith as though only certain of us can know God and the others of us must tag-along or burn.
In a non-denominational international Bible study group I've gone to lately these very teachings permeate the conversation AND the written material the group leaders distribute. It is sooooo demoralizing to try to fellowship with these dear people. I nearly weep writing this because just as I was forced out of the Witnesses they will force me out with the same tactics. Those who claim to champion the cause of reconciliation with God will repress each person's efforts to do just that. What is everlasting life? Isn't it actually KNOWING God and his Son and not by "taking in knowledge"about them--knowledge provided in pill form by religion despensers ?
In the Biblr instruction a woman delivers a 30 min lecture at the end of every group "discussion" (they do it in the same way as the WT study is conducted with printed material and very, very tight control of comments). She is at liberty to say things that are spun off of the obnoxious and non-sensical riffs from tdoctrines that are as enshrined in sacred regard as any Catholic dogma ever was. I heard last week that God planned, predestined the sin of Adam--Planned the failure of his creation--to highlight his mercy and to set the stage for Jesus. And there is a woman in my group who is one of the "elect" of God who humbly struggles not to be prideful just because she is Chosen-of-God unlike the others who are damned. She knows that she did nothing to deserve it (She held a lucky number?)
I see in the study material that we had last week that I am not considered part of the Body of Christ unless I "believe in" the Trinity. I have discussed this with my study conductor. I have put before her that I do not understand why I must say the formula that has been forced down the throats of so many since the 4th century. I DO believe and affirm every Bible text that Jesus and the apostles taught. I pointed out that this road of theology forces further divisive points upon which to create foolish demands of conscience via religious formulas: St. Augustine declared that a true Trinitarian Christian must say that the Holy Spirit procedes from the Father AND the Son not from the Father and THROUGH the Son. No kidding. It split the early church in the time of the Nicene "Fathers". But I also have noted over time that the disputed scriptures and their translations have ever been subject to the politics of religion and the secular governors of each age. Foxe's Book of Martyrs shows the variety of sufferings and deaths Christians have perpetrated on one another--and for every sort of "orhodoxy".
How often do we ourselves look at the scriptures? THe original language? Hardly ever look? We need to or else just leave each other alone and prayfor each other--which we should do anyway.
The last time I was shepherded by my elders I took a picture of an potsherd from the period of David's dynasty that was found about a year and a half ago in the Elah valley around Bethlehem. The text was in ancient Hebrew. Five lines of it far older than the more recent Biblical Hebrew. It described how the poor were to be cared for and it warned to worship God alone. I hope any reading this post will bother to google it. Because the very primitive means to express thought was astonishing. I told the brothers that it is outrageous for one person to presume that they understand the nuance of meaning in scripture so crude as these so as to hand out theological must-do-must-believe to others. Granted, the text would not allow a believer to rape the widows and say that was okay, they could not abuse the orphans and say that was a matter of personal conscience. But the range of individual and responsible choice to listen and comply was wonderful to think of. At the time I was pleading for my conscience. But there is no way to receive this needful mercy in any religious structure, especially not Jehovah's Witnesses.
Written communication has become more sophisticated since then but ideas are still hard to convey from one human mind to another, much less from God's mind to our own--and we are forced to rely on the uninspired translators! Too many of us continue to perpetrate the same crime of demanding a certain orthodoxy in others without allowing the (H)holy (S)spirit to do that work. We can and should discuss profitably; forums like this are wonderful for meeting in Jesus' name. But the bible study that I have gone to? Without a respectful discussion of the scriptures and only a "top down" propaganda style this and all organizations that think they are dispensing the Truth can only end up beating their fellow slaves, veritably burning a "heretic" at the stake.
What is the work of Abraham? to listen and obey God without a committee telling you what and how to do it.
We have only one Leader, the Christ.
Not a captive
Very nice sentiments and well thought out. The paths of spirituality and religion cross sometimes, sometimes for the better but often it has not been a good union.
Trust that inner voice its telling you your true journey.
Some good examples here...just marking so I can learn a few
The wages of sin is death.
Regarding Judicial Committees, this scripture seems to be overlooked...
1 Corinthians 4:3-5... 3 Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by YOU or by a human tribunal. Even I do not examine myself. 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah. 5 Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God.
(Hi Stephen, thanks for the welcome :)
Welcome, just a reader. That would be a good scripture to point out during a judicial committee (kangaroo court).
Designs- I was asking for examples of scriptures that other Christian denominations ignore. That's what this thread is about..ignored scriptures
Not a captive wrote- I see in the study material that we had last week that I am not considered part of the Body of Christ unless I "believe in" the Trinity. I have discussed this with my study conductor. I have put before her that I do not understand why I must say the formula that has been forced down the throats of so many since the 4th century. I DO believe and affirm every Bible text that Jesus and the apostles taught.
I respectively disagree. The teaching of the Trinity has not been forced down your throat. It clearly is in scripture. Not the word Trinity, but it's concept. The Father , the Son and the Holy Ghost are all referred to as God and having attributes that only God could have. So let me add a few more scriptures that the Watchtower ignores supporting this position. seeing how you stated that you do believe and affirm every bible text that Jesus and the apostles taught.
These are Holy Ghost examples. Acts 13;2 The Holy Spirit refers to himself as 'I', Acts 5;3 "he" can be lied to, Acts 8;29. 10;19, 20; 13;2 'he' hears, Acts 21;11 'he' knows the future. John 15;26 'he' teaches, John 16;8-11 'he' prays and intercedes. Romans 15;30 'he' guides, Romans 8;26 'he' loves, Is 63;10 'he' feels hurt. In Heb 10;29 'he' can be outraged. These are the attributes of a person, not an active force. And lastly Mark 3;29 states that the Holy Spirit can be blasphemed....guess what.....Only God can be blasphemed. That is why these are scriptures that the Watchower would have it's adherents avoid. Are there scriptures that other Christian groups ignore? That was the question. Thanks
dc
Verse 9 here must be a good candidate for one of the most ignored scriptures.
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." [ a ] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." [ b ]
Footnotes:What is clear that the Lord (Jesus) mentioned in verse 9, Paul clearly shows is the same Lord (Yahweh) mentioned in Isaiah 28 and Joel 2.
The tampering of the original Greek scriptures by the WT by changing "Lord" to "Jehovah" in the NWT is pure heresy.
As it is written
2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.
5 "Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: ( A ) if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in ( B ) the tree of life and in ( C ) the holy city, which are described in this book.
Blessings,
Stephen
Jesus said, "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, and in Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the Earth" Acts 1:8
When the HS comes upon us, we are to be WITNESSES FOR JESUS.
