Would miracles cure atheism?

by hamilcarr 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • Shepherd Book
    Shepherd Book

    "No need to fear atheism. I like this guy, Sam Harris he's doing it right. I always say the reason I don't embrace atheism is that I've never been that certain about anything, it's just not in my own nature to be terribly decisive in a philosophical way. I always tend to see both sides of most things."

    ...Atheism is not anti-theism. It simply means you see no evidence for god(s) and live as though none exist. Atheist are not against the idea/possibility of a god's existence.

    Also, why do people always think atheism is so decisive? If I say I am an a-Santa, am I being unreasonably certain? I mean, Santa might exist, sure, but I've seen no evidence for his existence and I live as though he's not real. Am I not seeing both sides if I say "Santa isn't real" or "I don't think Santa exists?" I'm not an anti-Santa, so if he does show up tomorrow (or on Dec. 25th), that's cool with this a-Santa atheist.

    Great video,BTW.

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    Oh, I didn't say that atheism as a philosophy is always that decisive...I just said I'm not. Probably half of my closest friends embrace atheism or agnosticism, so I find myself discussing it quite a bit. I've met different kinds of atheists too, here and there over the years, and some of them are very "decisive"(she said euphemistically) and even a little rude about it, but so are some theists, so that's no reason to think that all atheists are big meanies.

    My best friend Karen is an atheist, but she practices Martial arts and with it, Buddhist style meditation and has great transcendent spiritual experiences. Like her, I tend to believe that's a human mechanism, although a very mystical one, but it's part of what I'd term as spirituality. I practice Buddhist style meditation too, although I'm not one, but I like what it does for me. The nice thing about being a Universalist is you can borrow or reject any spiritual idea or experience you like because it's all got some validity. And of course, some of all of it is pure bullshit, like all human convention.

    I know where morals and ethics come from, from humans, not gods, so I don't need someone to believe in God to believe they're a decent and compassionate person. I'm convinced that evolution did all the hard work that God gets credit for, and I have a fairly good idea of why some people need to believe in God and organize religions, too. That doesn't have anything to do with the supernatural, just the natural, inherent needs of human beings.

    I'm more towards agnosticism if anything but tend to come down on the "it'd be okay if there was a god and hope to hell that he's more like Jesus than Yahweh" side of that whole thing.

    But, do I think that God is watching people and fiddling with them and listening to them all day, if there is one? Nah...no evidence of that in my life or anyone else's that I know.

    If I were God, I wouldn't be hanging around this little swirling ball of dust on one of the less populated outer arms of the Milky Way all of eternity. Boring.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Of course unlike most, if not all such people, i would go & get my head examined after, just to be on the safe side.

    Wouldn't hurt, LOL !

    But of course you make the point as to why a miracle wouldn't work to convert anyone, unless they were open to it from the very beginning.

  • Paralipomenon
    Paralipomenon

    By the same logic, shouldn't a lack of miracles "cure" theism?

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    Why are you bringing logic into this? We're discussing religion, which is pretty much a synonym for "magic". LOL

  • Terry
    Terry

    "A"=without "Theos"=God.....=without God (neither for nor against God; simply without God.)

    A Bald man is without hair not against having hair.

    I'm all for having a benevolent God instead of the historical on again off again mircles/no miracles kill you/save God who goes missing like

    my alcoholic father for long stretches of time.

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    Best ficitional conversation about atheism vs. belief ever, IMHO:


    From "Ghostbusters" 1984 movie

    Winston Zeddemore: Hey Ray. Do you believe in God?
    Dr Ray Stantz: Never met him.
    Winston Zeddemore: Yeah, well, I do. And I love Jesus's style, you know.
    Dr Ray Stantz: The entire roof cap is made out of a magnesium-tungsten alloy...
    Winston Zeddemore: What are you so involved with over there?
    Dr Ray Stantz: These are the blueprints for structural ironwork of Dana Barret's apartment building, and they are very, very strange.
    Winston Zeddemore: Hey Ray. Do you remember something in the bible about the last days when the dead would rise from the grave?
    Dr Ray Stantz: I remember Revelations 7:12...?And I looked, and he opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake. And the sun became as black as sack cloth, and the moon became as blood."
    Winston Zeddemore: "And the seas boiled and the skies fell."
    Dr Ray Stantz: Judgement day.
    Winston Zeddemore: Judgement day.
    Dr Ray Stantz: Every ancient religion has its own myth about the end of the world.
    Winston Zeddemore: Myth? Ray, has it ever occurred to you that maybe the reason we've been so busy lately is 'cause the dead HAVE been rising from the grave?
    Dr Ray Stantz: [Pause ] How 'bout a little music?
    Winston Zeddemore: Yeah.

  • Paralipomenon
  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    ROFLMAOWTSDMF!

    Truly...if most people could ask for a miracle from God, would it really be world peace?

    Most people would be asking for a pile of money or a date with a supermodel or a hot bod so they could get a supermodel themselves AND a pile of money showing it off.

    Of, course, some of you may not be as shallow as I am.

  • Shepherd Book
    Shepherd Book

    Mindmelda- Thanks for your further explanation. I enjoyed reading it. Didn't mean to start an argument, so I'm glad none was forthcoming.

    Terry - Appreciated your analogy.

    Everyone - Interesting post from an ex-JW friend on not believing in theists: http://www.ryansutter.net/blog/2010/02/25/i-dont-believe-in-theists/

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