I'm really enjoying this discussion. It's enormously helpful. I have some answers to "If I'm not a JW, then whats going to keep me from going back to drinking?"
Fascinating discussion. Please continue. 8)
If someone is benefitting from being in a cult, should we leave them there?
by Confuzzled 41 Replies latest jw friends
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minimus
I don't think "we" can make decisions for others.
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yesidid
IMHO it depends on their age and emotional enviornment.
If they are elderly, not very healthy, and have a good support system in the org, (and many have) leave them be.
They are not in a position to to construct a new support system and taking away what they have, will leave them bereft and lonely.
In fact it could be quite cruel.
y
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crazy2try
I know many would disagree, but the thought that people trade one addiction for another is very true. I work with many people like this and I hear all the time that they have found a type of religion and are very zealous in their new faith. Something I hear all the time is that they traded their addiction.
I figure if they are happy, leave them alone. But if they express some discontent then help, but not push.
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yknot
"If I'm not a JW, then whats going to keep me from going back to drinking?"
When you say 'drinking' I take it you mean 'over indulging- drunkeness'
So how about:
(a) Intelligence that discerns destructive choices lead to a life of hardship and pain (self preservation)
(b) Responsibility to his child .....
If I may be so bold as to suggest what this boy needs is not 'religion' to hold him accountable for his actions so much a strict lesson in CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.
I take it there wasn't a father figure in his childhood?
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dgp
I think the debate is valuable and, not being a witness, I need to be humble and accept that so many of you know much better than me. I can understand that it can be cruel to tell an elderly person that his beliefs of a lifetime were a big lie, or leave him without relatives to take care after him. All right. I could accept the idea that a person whose life was a hell of a mess can benefit from becoming a witness (more on that later), but what I see here is the issue discussed from a practical point of view. As in "Is it convenient to remove the blindfold from someone's eyes even though it will have terrible practical consequences?" From a strictly moral point of view, it is wrong to let a person live in a dangerous error. Let us not forget that you witnesses might bleed to death over a hope that is simply false. I don't see the good morals there.
I also see fallacious reasoning here. A person might have hit the very bottom and seem to be absolutely beyond salvation. And then the witnesses might seem to save him from such a life. But that is not the only option. This person needs to feel an internal drive to improve his own life. That can come from many sources.
I was once the witness of a true story. This man was a heavy drinker and vomited right in front of his little daughter. The embarrassment was such that he promised her never to drink again. So far, he has kept his word. You see? he didn't need the witnesses.
I think the debate is interesting but it needs to be focused on someone in particular. Let's use a fake example. Johnny your neighbor is a witness. He's 16 and wants to quit school to pioneer. He is willing to die rather than accept a transfusion. He also has all the problems with depression and the like that many witnesses seem to have. Is it OK to leave him in the dark? Now, on the other hand, Granny your neighbor, too, has no means to keep herself, is very sick, and has no family but her JW family. Maybe then it's OK to leave her where she is, even if deep inside she knows it's all lies.
In the case of your boyfriend, Confuzzled, sorry to say it this bluntly but the man is not a very good guy and he's been sort of out for much of his life anyways. I can't see what harm could be done from awakening him. I don't think that's what he wants, however.
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GLTirebiter
For this kind of situation, addiction recovery, there are other sources of help without the bad side-effects. Recovering from addiction does not have to mean throwing away your own personality, nor must it involve replacing substance addicition with addiction to a high-control organization.
Also like a substance addiction, there's no point trying to "clean up" Watchtower addiction until the addicts themselves decide to kick the habit. If you force that change on them, resentment and relapse to an even deeper state of dependancy are likely consequences. I wouldn't call it "benefitting" from being in a cult, it's more a choice of the lesser of two evils when removing them from the cult would do further harm.
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peaches
yes.....unless they give some sign that they need help someway....nobody can live another persons life....you cannot see or feel what they are actually going through.....leaving can cause extreme mental anguish....as we on this site can atain to...leaving for some could do more harm than good...its scarey.....
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Mad Sweeney
Other than for an elderly person who is beholden to other cult members and has no other means of support, what possible harm could come from pulling someone out of A DANGEROUS MIND CONTROL CULT?
Jehovah's Witnesses are living as slaves to a publishing company. They have a measure of physical freedom but mentally and emotionally they are fully enslaved and even physically they are under some amount of control.
How can freeing someone from slavery HURT THEM?
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Confuzzled
DGP & Ynot, this has less to do with my BF, nothing will pull him away, I've accepted that, and I think the situation is winding down (Thank the Lord). He actualy stopped studying regularly, I think he saw something shiny, and it got warm out, so hes out on his bike 99% of the time. I don't think he's completely un-redeemable, but it's going to take a lot and I don't have that sort of time. I was just curious to see what you all have to say on the subject.