1 Thessalonians 5:2,3 - General Statement or Powerful Prophecy?

lepermessiah

After reading the posts regarding the "SPECIAL" talk this weekend, I was thinking about 1 Thess 5:2,3.

I remember growing up as a kid in the Reagan 80's waiting for the USSR to nuke the USA, or vice-versa. Then, with glasnost and perestroika, SO MANY JW's thought the long awaited cry of "peace and security" was imminent! After all, the GENERATION of 1914 was in their 70's.........

Now when I read 1 Thess 5:2,3 - I think Paul was probably just making a general observation - "hey, you dont know when the Lord is coming - it will be probably at a time that you dont expect."

Instead, as usual, the WTBS has turned that scripture into a DOOMSDAY proclamation!

What do you think?

From the NIV:

1 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Amplified Bible:

1 BUT AS to the suitable times and the precise seasons and dates, brethren, you have no necessity for anything being written to you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord will come [as unexpectedly and suddenly] as a thief in the night.

3 When people are saying, All is well and secure, and, There is peace and safety, then in a moment unforeseen destruction (ruin and death) will come upon them as suddenly as labor pains come upon a woman with child; and they shall by no means escape, for there will be no escape.

sir82

For you yourselves know perfectly well that the day of the [return of the] Lord will come [as unexpectedly and suddenly] as a thief in the night.

Well, there's the WTS's problem right there!

They keep telling people to expect it - and it never gets here.

That scripture used to be discussed a whole lot more in the 70's & 80's. It's a little surprising that they have dusted it off & made it so prominent in the "special" talk.

Mad Sweeney

If the Borg decides a scripture has a "modern day fulfillment" then they declare it is so, and thereafter it is so. Until noo lite comes along, that is.

Matthew 24:45 isn't a prophecy either but they treat it as such.

miseryloveselders

I always looked at it as a general mood or feeling. Jesus said it would come like a thief. People would be buying and selling, marrying, etc.. I view it as it would be similar to how Babylon fell, they were partying, and left the doors to city open. I hear JWs say they can't wait until the day comes when someone specifically states, "Peace & Security!" My father till this day, tells me I hope they utter those words soon. He's in 70's, and been waiting for 40-50 years. I've never viewed it in that fashion. Although lately I have to admit, I'm starting to wonder if none of that stuff was written for us, but rather it was to only mean something to those living back then.

Mad Sweeney

Thssalonians was a letter to a specific congregation or group of congregations, just like all of Paul's letters. If it was important enough to be a prophecy for ALL MANKIND 2000 years later, wouldn't he have mailed it to ALL congregations or to the apostles in Jerusalem?

PSacramento

Here is the thing, As Paul said and Jesus said, it will come as a "thief in the night".

You won't know, it can't be predcited and no date can be put on it.

Doing anything of the sort is bacially saying that they know more than Jesus and Paul.

Terry

First of all, what Jesus ACTUALLY said at any time to any one can only be known if we have a reliable document telling us.

We don't.

The "quotations" which sound so specific and carefully preserved AREN'T. They are a writer taking a story he's heard and "fleshing it out."

So, people parse each and every phrase as though they have a stem cell under an electron microscope. THEY DON'T.

We can't continue to pretend there are any uncorrupt original autograph bible texts in existence because THERE AREN'T!

All these end times speeches, verses, quotations, accounts and scenarios are reconstructions from hearsay!!

You fool yourself

if you think you can examine them for "meaning". THERE IS NONE!

Saying "nobody knows the day and the hour" is not information anyway. It is the opposite of information.

Telling us that "just when you think you're okay--you're not" is fear-mongering and not fact finding.

Use your intelligence and take a sober, objective look at the "signs" and you'll see NOTHING information-wise.

Earthquakes, lawlessness, and other blah blah blah "signs" are common experiences for all people in all places at all times.

For heaven's sakes people!

Tens of thousands of books, pamphlets, studies, examinations, commentaries, treatises and monographs are wriiten EVERY YEAR by some religious crackpot TELLING US THE TIME IS NEAR!

It is a giant steaming load of plop---and nothing more.

Millions of dollars are made by publishers feeding this excrement to anxious, bug-eyed believers with an insatiable appetite for END TIMES gossip, opinion, muckraking and mysticism.

You may as well open an astrology book and find out what Mars and Venus in conjunction "means" for your summer wardrobe selection!!

Really, people!

THE GLADIATOR

"1 BUT AS to the suitable times and the precise seasons and dates, brethren, you have no necessity for anything being written to you."

Paul was speaking to the brethren there and then. He expected Christ to return any day in his life time. They are all dead now and have been for around 2000 years.

He was as deluded as the brethren who more recently declared to the world that, 'millions now living will never die.' They are dead too!

This is what people do with their lives when they base their expectations on nothing more than hearsay, and false hope.

PSacramento

Paul was speaking to the brethren there and then. He expected Christ to return any day in his life time. They are all dead now and have been for around 2000 years.

Paul had to make it clear to them, in his seocnd letter, that he was NOT talking about some "soon to happen" event.

Of course, at the same time, I am sure Paul HOPED it woudl happen sooner than later, even though Jesus made it clear that there was no time frame.

Paul was just as guilty as others to see the kingdom of God arrive, he forgot that the kingdom had already arrived and was with him.

Well, perhaps forgot is the wrong word.

Terry,

Have you read "the Case for Christ"? or the "Historical reliability of the Gospels" ?

maninthemiddle

Misery,

It is interesting you bring this up, I have been having much the same feelings lately. Check this link out, I can't say I completely agree with it but I do find it very interesting.

I still feel the more I read the bible the less I feel it has any meaning for us.

1 Thessalonians 5:2,3 - General Statement or Powerful Prophecy?

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