1 Thessalonians 5:2,3 - General Statement or Powerful Prophecy?

by lepermessiah 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    They seem to be wobbling a little in their application of this scripture nowadays. This passage from a 2004 WT tries to cover all possibilities. In practice, the older dubs that I know who were schooled the past decades are still on the watch for the "cry of Peace and Security"

    WT 2004 2/1 p 21

    "Aware that his end is approaching, Satan since 1914 has been stepping up his efforts to mislead “the entire inhabited earth.” Always the master deceiver, Satan works behind the scenes, putting on the stage the world’s leaders and trendsetters as role players. (2 Timothy 3:13; 1 John 5:19) One of his goals is to deceive mankind into thinking that his way of governing can bring them true peace. By and large, his propaganda has succeeded, for people remain optimistic in spite of mounting evidence that conditions are going from bad to worse. The apostle Paul foretold that just before this system of things is destroyed, there will be a notable expression of satanic propaganda. He wrote: “Whenever it is that they are saying: ‘Peace and security!’ then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman.”—1 Thessalonians 5:3; Revelation 16:13.

    In recent years, politicians have often used the phrase “peace and security” to describe various human schemes. They even dubbed 1986 the International Year of Peace, although that year did not live up to its name. Do such efforts by world leaders constitute the complete fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians 5:3, or was Paul referring to a specific event of such dramatic proportions as to claim world attention?

    Since Bible prophecies are often fully understood only after they are fulfilled or are in the process of fulfillment, we will have to wait and see. It is of interest, though, that Paul compared the sudden destruction following the cry of “Peace and security!” to the birth pang of a pregnant woman. Over a period of about nine months, an expectant mother becomes increasingly aware of the baby that is growing within her. She may be able to hear her baby’s heartbeat or feel its movements in the womb. It may even kick her. The signs often become more and more pronounced until, one day, she feels a sharp pain, a pang, indicating that the hoped-for event—the baby’s birth—has arrived. Hence, however the prophesied cry of “Peace and security!” may be fulfilled, it will lead to a sudden, painful, but ultimately blessed event—the destruction of wickedness and the beginning of a new world system."

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Although lately I have to admit, I'm starting to wonder if none of that stuff was written for us, but rather it was to only mean something to those living back then.

    It was a "warning" against being complacent and thinking that "we got the goods, no need to worry".

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    thanks for the link Maninthemiddle, I'll check it out.

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    It was a "warning" against being complacent and thinking that "we got the goods, no need to worry".

    I agree with you on that end of things. The only thing I'm questioning lately is, was the warning for "my generation?"

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I agree with you on that end of things. The only thing I'm questioning lately is, was the warning for "my generation?"

    Sure, why not?

    Any warning against complacincy is a good one, right?

    Those kinds of advices are "timeless".

    Of course if you don't believe, it's irrelevant, but for those that do, it is releavant as far as it goes to motivate people to do good and be faithful, beyond that, like to instill "fear", it is counter-productive.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Terry,

    Have you read "the Case for Christ"? or the "Historical reliability of the Gospels" ?

    I have read and continue to read every apologist I can get my hands on.

    Lee Strobel is not a very honest "journalist" in his presentation!

    Josh McDowell, R.C. Sproul, Pat Robertson, Chesterton, Clive Staples Lewis, etc. are each a different stylist.

    The circular reasoning, logical fallacies and plain dishonest omissions of counter-arguments are tiresome.

    Among all the apologists G.K.Chesterton is the greatest "thinker" in my opinion!

    None of the above deal with the most important foundation issue with clarity, honest historicity and factual analysis: We only have the scriptures to go on for information. That "information" was compromised. It is no longer possible to parse it for purposes of orthodoxy.

    The Catholic Church knew this from the get-go and they've invented "majesterium" as a replacement for the corruption of bible text.

    JW's have their version: the Governing Body chanelling invisible Jesus.

    Evangelicals have the Holy Spirit talking inside their widdle bwains.

    Everybody has their own mcguffin.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    And you've read Bruce Metzger's works too, I assume?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    General Statement..

    ...................... ...OUTLAW

  • Mall Cop
    Mall Cop

    Terry many of the responses you give are reasonable, logical and make a lot of sense. Yet, so many can't get it. There are books out there that support both sides of bibical issues, such as the one being discussed here.

    When a person uses the scriptures to support the scriptures that person is using circular reasoning, like a dog chasing its tail and going nowhere. That is why subjects like the end times are endless and going nowhere.

    Misqouting Jesus, the book you recommended some time ago is an excellant example on what is happening with 1 Thessalonians 5:2,3.

    Mistakes and changes have shaped the Bible we read today.

    Scribes, scholars, and modern translators poured through thousands of manuscripts, copies of copies etc. to arrive at their own faith based conclusions and then make their own copy of who said what.

    Confusion among the many Christian sects demonstrates that they don't have it right when they use the scriptures to support the scriptures and their belief systems.

    Blueblades

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    agree with you completely Lepermessiah. Paul is speaking to the Thessolonians telling them that when people feel safe and secure in their godless lives their end comes...they will not escape judgment. The WT obviously turns this into a long-range prophecy to their own self-interests in keeping the end near. Man is always working toward peace, thus every twist and turn in mankind it portrayed as meaning the proclamation is about to be made and the end is near. And of course they also rip Matt 24 out of context so that anything bad also means the end is near.

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