Russia: JWs treated as "terrorists"

by behemot 29 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  BurnTheShips

  The WBT$ printed pamphlets condeming the Russian Government..

  That's called freedom of speech around here. And condemning government actions is not being an anarchist. As an Apostate, I am not pro-JW at all, but rights are rights. The JWs are having their private property seized, their freedom of speech curtailed, their freedom to assemble restricted, and their freedom of worship abridged. This is not the way to fight the JWs. This is not the way to fight any of these groups. This is a violation of the human rights we should all have respected, regardless of whether or not we are JWs. This is wrong. Period.

  BTS
• 

  tec

  What are Russia's freedom of speech laws concerning verbal attacks on the government?
• 

  JWoods

  I have to say that I am somewhere in between BTW and Outlaw on this...

  First, I think it is deplorable that Russia has this much disregard for freedom of speech. But that is Russia - on another thread, the point was made that even Canada has less constitutional freedom of speech than the U.S.

  However, I think it is equally deplorable that the JWs in Russia have done so little to protect their rank & file from this kind of persecution. It is very much like the Malawi incidents of the 1960s in my books - in particular that tract that denounced the Russian government on civil rights. Anybody in their right mind had to know that was going to create MORE CONFLICT. And once again, suffered by the ordinary witnesses, not their leadership that caused it.

  All the witnesses would have had to do is cut back on the WTS-directed anti-government rhetoric and obey the law of that land - and I suspect that none of this would have ever happened.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/constit.html

  We, the multinational people of the Russian Federation, united by a common destiny on our land, asserting human rights and liberties, civil peace and accord, preserving the historic unity of the state, proceeding from the commonly recognized principles of equality and self-determination of the peoples honoring the memory of our ancestors, who have passed on to us love of and respect for our homeland and faith in good and justice, reviving the sovereign statehood of Russia and asserting its immutable democratic foundations, striving to secure the wellbeing and prosperity of Russia and proceeding from a sense of responsibility for our homeland before the present and future generations, and being aware of ourselves as part of the world community, hereby approve the Constitution of the Russian Federation. ........

  Article 17.

  1. The basic rights and liberties in conformity with the commonly recognized principles and norms of the international law shall be recognized and guaranteed in the Russian Federation and under this Constitution.
  2. The basic rights and liberties of the human being shall be inalienable and shall belong to everyone from birth.
  3. The exercise of rights and liberties of a human being and citizen may not violate the rights and liberties of other persons.

  Article 28.

  Everyone shall be guaranteed the right to freedom of conscience, to freedom of religious worship, including the right to profess, individually or jointly with others, any religion, or to profess no religion, to freely choose, possess and disseminate religious or other beliefs, and to act in conformity with them.

  Article 29.

  1. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought and speech.
  2. Propaganda or campaigning inciting social, racial, national or religious hatred and strife is impermissible. The propaganda of social, racial, national, religious or language superiority is forbidden.
  3. No one may be coerced into expressing one's views and convictions or into renouncing them.
  4. Everyone shall have the right to seek, get, transfer, produce and disseminate information by any lawful means. The list of information constituting the state secret shall be established by the federal law.
  5. The freedom of the mass media shall be guaranteed. Censorship shall be prohibited.

  Article 30.

  1. Everyone shall have the right to association,including the right to create trade unions in order to protect one's interests. The freedom of public associations activities shall be guaranteed.
  2. No one may be coerced into joining any association or into membership thereof.

  Article 35.

  1. The right of private property shall be protected by law.
  2. Everyone shall have the right to have property in his or her ownership, to possess, use and manage it either individually or jointly with other persons.
  3. No one may be arbitrarily deprived of his or her property unless on the basis of decision by a court of law. Property can be forcibly alienated for state needs only on condition of a preliminary and equal compensation.
  4. The right of inheritance shall be guaranteed.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Burns..

  You can`t compare the rest of the world to the USA.. The Russian JW`s are`nt in the USA..They are in Russia..

  The Russian government is confiscating WBT$ Literature..Not Jehovah`s Witness Literature..Jehovah`s Witness`s Print nothing..

  The Russian Government is confiscating WBT$ Property..Jehovah`s Witness`s don`t Own Kingdom halls or assembly halls..

  It all belongs to the WBT$..

  Jehovah`s Witness`s involved themselves in a WBT$ Political Battle..They should have stuck to religion..

  ....................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  tec

  Thanks, BTS.

  For the JW's, their problem seems to be that their personal Article 28 is naturally in conflict with Article 29, #2. Looks like the JW's are definitely in violation of Article 29, #2 - although many religions would be guilty of thinking sentence two (propaganda would be teaching and promoting that idea of religious superiority, right?)

  On the other hand, it doesn't seem to say that those things should be considered acts of terrorism - so some of their personal rights seem to be violated. But in accordance to that article, the JW's shouldn't be allowed to teach the hatred of other religions (namely Catholic) in Russia. If they are, then they should be warned and stopped from doing so - or fined, or whatever the penalty is. There's no reason for this prohibition to stop them from teaching their faith; but it should stop them from teaching that all else is evil.

  Guess there would be no Westboro Baptists in Russia, eh?

  Tammy
• 

  Think About It

  The witlesses are terrorists, at least as an organization. They insist that people go around from door to door telling everyone that they are going to be destroyed soon (how soon?) unless they act at once and become Jehovah's Witlesses. To me, that is a form of terrorism.

  That's a very broad brush you used painting that statement. Terrorists? I've been around a whole lot of people of different religions that had no problem telling a person that if a person didn't believe in their form of Christianity or Jesus that they would be destroyed or burn in hell forever. Using the term terrorists to describe people with these beliefs and practices would be similar to when the Nazi's first started vilifing the Jews in order to turn people against them. I believe we have a very good idea of who and what terrorists actually are.

  Think About It
• 

  OUTLAW

  The WBT$ broke this Russian Law,with their Campain against the Russian Government..

  Propaganda or campaigning inciting social, racial, national or religious hatred and strife is impermissible.

  The propaganda of social, racial, national, religious or language superiority is forbidden.

  The WBT$ is not in trouble because of Religion..

  The WBT$ is in trouble because they purposely broke Russian Law..

  ..................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  Are any rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses being arrested, beaten, or otherwise deprived of basic human rights such as home & food?

  There is no fundamental human right to own Watchtower literature. If all the government is doing is confiscating the mind-controlling misanthropic WT literature then more power to the Russian government.

  I have more pity for a duped Dub stuck in the borg than I have for one who can't get his magazines or go to a Kingdom Hall anymore.

  Now if the government gets violent against the rank and file, then they've gone too far. What they SHOULD do is bring them all into a meeting where they're deprogrammed and educated about what the borg has done to them.
• 

  donuthole

  Burn the Ships -- Did you notice Article 29 2?

  Article 29

  2. Propaganda or campaigning inciting social, racial, national or religious hatred and strife is impermissible. The propaganda of social, racial, national, religious or language superiority is forbidden.

  The JW's violate the Russian constitution because they indeed distribute propaganda (literature) that promotes "religious superiority". Can anyone argue that the JW literature does not routinely do this?

  The simple solution is for JW's in Russia to stop using literature that the government considers to be a violation of the constitution. Why won't the Organization take this simple step that would help JW's in Russia be able to worship freely? What is so important about the literature?