DEBATE: Did Jesus REALLY rise from the dead?? (page 2)

tec

"First, I want to affirm with all evangelical Christians that the Bible is the Word of God, inerrant, inspired, and our final authority for faith and life."

WALLACE doesn't agree with Bart Ehrman!! Shock!

I don't agree with either of them, and yet I still look to the bible for guidance! But the holy Spirit has more authority than the bible, something that cannot be proven... but I would think that a Christian should acknowledge that.

Remember, that the person making an assertion of the existence of something extraordinary is the one with the burden of proof to present extraordinary evidence. It is not the person rebutting.

I agree.., but if you are going to bother to rebut, then your rebuttals are just as subject to criticism as the original assertion. A bad rebuttal doesn't mean the assertion is true, of course. It just means that it is a bad rebuttal. Tammy

tec

I watched the quick digest that you gave, and I'll respond somewhat to that. These are my opinions, of course. I definitely agree with Ehrman that we are all given brains and we should use them to decide for ourselves.

First, he asks three questions at the start of that digest - to which my answers are completely opposite as the general answers he expected. Do you believe the bible is inerrant - My answer, No. I believe the message preserved within it is inerrant. Have you read the DaVinci Code - No. Saw the movie, though, and it annoyed me that there seemed to be all this religious hype over a work of fiction based on a theory of a theory. Have you read the bible cover to cover - My answer, Yes. Many times. He asks if the bible is the inerrant word of God, why didn't God see fit to preserve that word without error? I already answered that I believe the message God wants us to have has been preserved, and that message is inerrant. He says he believes that things that were added did change the message. But of the few things listed in the above debate, none change the message of Christ. Ex - Not stoning the adulteress - belongs to do not judge(and can easily be backed up by the splinter in the brother's eyes lesson)/ or do unto others as you would have them do to you/ or forgiveness. As for the trinity? I don't embrace it, but even I can see the evidence leading toward it/and against it - and none of that is dependent upon the verse that was taken out of 1John. He says that there are upwards of 300 000 discrepancies between all the manuscripts that we have - I wish he would name at least a dozen or so examples, so we could get a clear idea on how meaningful (or not) these discrepancies are. Besides, he seems to answer his own concern when he speaks about different eyewitness accounts to a car accident. He doesn't doubt that the accident still happened. People just saw different things according to their perspective. Tammy

PSacramento

I don't see why people make suxch a huge issue of the Trinity, really.

God is simply a term we use for the Creator, saying Jesus is God is like saying a person is Human.

Saying Jesus is Yahweh would be an issue, but the Trinity does not say that.

Jesus being God explains who he can forgive sins and be one with the father, speak for the father, be the Word of God, be of the same form as God.

It doesn't make hum Yahweh, but it does make him God ( in essence).

Don't agree? Fine, don't worry about, salvation is based on Grace and God's Love.

zombie dub

How can you debate something that happened 1000s of years ago that noone knows anything about for sure, has no written or photographic evidence of or any archeological backing? Might as well debate if aliens visited earth or not in 400BC, it's just as daft.

dgp

Haven't had the time to really sit and watch them, but I will. This does sound interesting. For the time being, I have to say that I always thought Moses and Elijah had been resurrected from the dead. I know, I know Elijah ascended to the heavens while still alive, but I'm saying what I used to believe, not what the Bible says. It would be interesting to determine how the apostles knew who was who.

I did notice Ehrman spoke about Moses being back from the dead. It's interesting he didn't mention Elijah being back from the dead, but I assume that was because Elijah was ascended to the heavens, while still alive. So what we have there is not really a transfiguration, or not completely, because one of the three was dead and the other two were alive.

I do like the part of using our brains.

cyberjesus

Why group fanatic muslims and christians? They all need faith to believe and act according to their beliefs.

Thanks for the Videos. They are awesome. When I first came to this forum I was still a Christian and was looking for the "truth" or the right religion. I avoided any atheist topic, but it was that search for truth that helped me loose my faith. No I am proud of my non-faith.

Its hard to accept what our brains conclude when it stands against what we want to believe. But its good to be wrong and know that you are than assuming you are right just based on beliefs with no foundation other than tradition and faith.

notverylikely

Many people in the first century were so convinced that they were will to die for their belief.

The suffered hardships, were persecuted, they did not have anythign to gain, but they BELIEVED that Jesus ressurected.

A shitload of Nazis died for their beliefs. Belief != anything

Terry

"..over 90% of the NT is rather well established in regard to its original text, and none of the remaining 10% provides us with data that could lead to any shocking revisions of the Christian credo or doctrine."

Well, depends on what "Well-Established" actually MEANS, doesn't it?

I just can't see how the total absence of the FIRST EDITION followed by the passing of many years can lead to anything but dim memory.

And that dim memory, we all agree, was endlessly tampered with by well-meaning folk who distorted whatever true things was there.

How can we get 90% of something NOT THERE to compare?

But, anyway.

We are human. Humans want there to be SOMETHING. We want it to be what we want it to be. Our minds can't overcome our needs.

Heaven

Stories change over time. People have their own ideas and perceptions. Sometimes they don't hear exactly what is said so they fill in the blanks. And then, there are the exaggerations. Without the original written down, no one can say exactly what happened or was said as long ago as 2,000+ years ago. An illustration follows:

Heaven whispers to Terry...."I love peanut butter sandwiches! Pass it on."

Terry looks funny at Heaven for a second and then leans over to leavingwt and whispers "I load peanut brittle into my sand box. Pass it on."

leavingwt giggles and leans over to tec and whispers "I loathe pea soup beside my sad plot." And points to the person next to Tec.

Tec leans over and whispers to PSac "I hope pea scoops can be put on my side plate."

PSac leans over and whispers to Zombie Dub "I hoed peat loops pumped in the spinner grate."

Zombie Dub leans over and whispers to DGP "I sewed tea scones and bumped into my sister Kate."

DGP leans over and whispers to Cyberjesus "I stole a bee clone that jumped onto Mr. Tate."

Cyberjesus leans over and whispers to Notverylikely "I sold a big clown in the large tent."

Notverylikely leans over to Terry and whispers "I scold a big cloud to reinvent."

DEBATE: Did Jesus REALLY rise from the dead??

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