Submission and stupid rules

by Lady Lee 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  mindmelda

  In the first congo I was in, there was a sister who was quite a brain with numbers, in fact, she was a CPA. She handled the congo finances for years since there was a dearth of elders and ministerial servants, and it was a small congregation.

  Finally, when it grew, they took the job away from her although she'd been doing it quite well, and gave it to an inept brother who proceeded to totally screw it up, of course.

  But, because he had outdoor plumbing, it was deemed that he should handle it...badly.

  That sister is no longer a Witness, by the way. She left the Witnesses years ago, (YAY!) left her janitor husband who was an alcoholic dope and eventually married another CPA she had been working with, and they have their own very successful business, last I heard. Of course, the Witnesses painted her a harlot and a terrible person, an "unsubmissive" wife who drove her poor husband to drink and was frigid....all sorts of awful things.

  She was never submissive enough to be a Witness because she was a SMART person. I remember her being very unhappy as a Witness, never smiling and obviously struggling to stay married to her husband, who was also a pretty obvious alcoholic. On Hall cleaning days every weekend, he always smelled of beer and sometimes was definitely drunk.
• 

  mindmelda

  This is what happens when religion, any religion, but the Witnesses are especially guilty of it, uses people according to some artificially imposed caste system based on an untruth instead of ability and natural inclination or talent.

  If a man can do it better, fine. If a woman can, fine. But, assuming a man can do anything better than a woman just because of gender is also a disservice to males.

  I think this stupid rule should go away for the sake of men as well as women. It makes no sense. There are women who are great scientists, great with numbers, great with mathematical concepts, who can build a house, drive a truck and do all sorts of things we have deemed "man's work" and there are men who are great cooks, sewers, child care givers (My dad was a much more nurturing parent than my mother, for instance) grade school teachers, and nurses, more traditionally "women's work".

  The best OB nurse I ever had during the delivery of my last child was a male nurse/midwife. He was terrific! He'd delivered 5 of his own children (his wife was also a nurse) and he knew just what to do, was a great hand holder, very reassuring, and loved his job. He was the head of the OB nursing staff at that hospital, as a matter of a fact. I delivered that kid without any pain medication and he was a great coach, everything you'd want in a midwife.
• 

  Heaven

  The submissiveness/subjectiveness/subjugation of women was my primary reason for not wanting to be a JW (among the other obvious ones). At 16, this hit me hard as I watched my Mom become more and more miserable in her marriage while she caved into this BS. I knew myself well enough to know I could never live as someone's 'slave'.

  Subjugation of anyone is oppressive and it is unethical and unprincipled. There is no room for creativity, joy, and growth of the human spirit in an environment of oppression. It also says a lot about the Bible writers and about religions who continue the tradition. I want nothing to do with it.

  Regarding Genitals 3:16, I asked my Mom why God would deliberately set up a system to fail. Once again, I received no answer. Only the silence.
• 

  notverylikely

  Brothers are rewarded for having a penis and for blind loyalty. While I have the peener, the blind loyalty and cogitive dissonance was always an issue for me. Thank the FSM I am a great actor.
• 

  jookbeard

  I believe it's very important that all women especially JW women are definitely treated as second class citizens in the K/H and know their place, jobs like cleaning , baking of cakes are acceptable and perhaps the odd pat on the head to let them know how much of a good job they are doing should be practiced at times, also we all know that the weaker sex have that dreadful curse at the end of each month and consideration should be given to those tetchy wenches at these times, also requests to full blown sexual intercourse should be lessened at this time, but any good women worth her salt should always respect and understand her husbands sexual needs as well and all women should feel obliged to satisfy her man with a discreet session of oral sex.
• 

  Lady Lee

  mindmelda You reminded me of another example

  When our new hall was being built I went to help out. I learned quite young how to handle a hammer, a saw, a screwdriver. My husband to be didn't have a clue. So I was all set to do the manual work if they needed me. But no. I didn't have the male anatomy so I was told the only manual thing I could do was hand bricks to the men who were putting them up. My soon-to-be-husband was inside doing something he shouldn't have been doing.

  They really needed workers who knew what they were doing. But nope. I guess they didn't need them that much.

  I was always told I was stupid and couldn't learn anything. The submission role drove me crazy. One of the ways of trying to overcome this stupid/submissive role that I decided to learn something new each year. So one year it was knitting. The next year it was crocheting (Mouthy's daughter helped me with this one). Then it was making jam, or pickles, or canning tomatoes, or sign language, or dress-making, or roofing, or ... or ... There was always something new to learn. One of my first jobs in fact was mostly done by men - offset printer (large printing machine - pre-xerox)

  I think I just needed an outlet for my creativity and talents. I still do this today. After I left the JWs it was making bookshelves and a desk, or over the years how to use a computer and eventually how to repair/upgrade to finally how to build the computer. Or rewire lamps. Or upholstery. Or stripping and refinishing furniture. Or repairing or installing batteries in wheelchairs and scooters. Or photo-editing or producing animated gifs or building websites. This year is is jewelery making.

  It seems I still have a combination of what is often considered "male" skills and "female" skills. I refuse to be pigeon-holed into one supposed role of male-oriented jobs. I enjoy both. But being a submissive female stifled a lot of it so I have to learn skills that were more domestic in nature like cooking, canning and crafts.

  I don't know how other JW women did it but I couldn't zip my desire to learn new things many of which were nor female-approved.
• 

  dgp

  Well, my congratulations on your independent spirit, Lady Lee. You're some woman.

  Lady Lee, looking at your sign language experience with my paranoid eyes, I can see that the elder was afraid you and the deaf brothers and sisters had a way to communicate that he couldn't police. He could control his son, of course. I speculate that's why he didn't care about your new sign after he knew his son knew it, too.

  As the ignorant unbeliever I am, I have a question. May I take it as a rule that a smart woman who learns a new skill just can't pass those skills to a brother unless there is no other chance? And then, once the "chance" arises, the sister needs to go back to acting like she doesn't know a thing?
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  The tragic thing about misery's post is that it is so incredibly true to Dub-form that it was reasonable to take him seriously. That same statement could have believably come from any number of elders I know personally.

  (fwiw, I knew it was sarcasm, knowing his previous posts)
• 

  Lady Lee

  May I take it as a rule that a smart woman who learns a new skill just can't pass those skills to a brother unless there is no other chance? And then, once the "chance" arises, the sister needs to go back to acting like she doesn't know a thing?

  You got it.
• 

  cult classic

  In pioneer school and Bethel it was drummed into the sisters that we could not tell a brother what to do. We could at best humbly suggest it and then it was up to the brother(s) whether or not to follow our suggestion. Also, there was a CO who made the biggest issue (from the platform) about sisters not correcting a brother who gave the wrong answer during the meeting.

  He said , "Friends when a brother makes an error, who are the first ones to raise their hands to correct him? It's the sisters isn't it? Wouldn't it be better if the sisters look around and wait to see if another brother will make the correction before stepping out of their place and taking matters into their own hands?" All of the sisters (including me) were nodding dutifully.

  But then later our PO (who fancied himself a liberal elder) said (from the platform) that he couldn't believe some insist a sister can't correct a brother. He said, "It is absolutely appropriate for a sister to correct a brother............as long as she does so respectfully"

  There was another incident where we (the sisters) had prepared lunch for the CO's visit. These sisters had worked so hard to prepare various dishes and have them warm and ready. Well the CO's wife had all of these allergies so the sisters altered their recipes on her behalf and managed to come up with a full menu. The CO walks in from the other side (double kingdom hall) and comes up to me and asks "how many meats are there" The sisters (many of whom were elderly and poor) looked scared to death. I told him there was one meat available but lots of side dishes and soups/stews. As he holds up two fingers in my face, he says "There should be two meats" The sisters were scrambling around trying to figure out what to do. I was seething inside as I left and bought chicken to go with the ham.

  Cult Classic