Isn't it quite possible that we have been on this earth forever and will be with no ceator. God has lived in the heavens forever with no creator. If there is a god does he wonder who created him, there are people and we wonder who created us? If god had a creator like we did, does he not believe in a creator because of the mess all around him?
If God had no creator then why do men have a creator?
by foolsparadise 23 Replies latest jw friends
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Gregor
By God! I've never thought of it that way!
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foolsparadise
Just doing my part. This is how my brain works unfortunatley
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bohm
Well, thats a very good question. The response i usually get is something along this:
Everything has a beginning (long argument that 'proove' time cannot be 'INFINITE' and ignore that we cant really talk about time before the big bang..), but God is ETERNAL. Why? He wrote it in a book thats why!. So stuff cant be 'infinite' but they CAN be 'eternal'. Gettit? they are two different things because one, infinite, applies to the universe ,and eternal applies to God.
And if you ask: 'mm. i kinda thought eternal and infinite was the same, whatever. Why cant the universe be eternal to?'
THEN YOU ARE A DIRTY HEATHEN!
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THE GLADIATOR
God is a human concept. Bringing 'a God' into the equation will ruin any chance of even beginning to to get a glimpse of what we are a part of. The big Daddy in the sky idea is a non-runner.
You are viewing the universe from your your limited human perspective. The universe does not think in the way that we do. It does not count time by the measures that we do. It doesn't plan or have a goal. It is. It happens.
It is impossible to accurately grasp what is happening in our mind because we can only view one little piece at a time. To understand we would need to consciously hold millions of pieces of the jigsaw in our mind in a single instance, which we cannot do. For me, it is enough to be a part of this awesome happening and accept that we cannot fully understand.
There is more chance that an amoeba will one day understand us, than that we will fully understand our existence let alone the existence of the universe.
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PSacramento
We don't know if God had a creator, God's very nature is quite beyond our understanding and maybe when we get to that point, perhaps we will understand it better or we will find out that indeed, even God was created.
But we do know that life on earth started from something, it wasn't just here as it is, or even as it was, since the beginning of time.
The reason that time doesn't apply to God is that, before there was "time", there was God and God created Time, so the concept of time ( beginning) doesn't apply to God.
Of course if you don't believe in God, the discussion and view is irrelevant.
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Perry
Why cant the universe be eternal to?'
Because known evidence and existing physical laws falsify this.
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mindmelda
The universe is finite, sorry. God is claimed to be infinite and maybe some kinds of energy? but as far as I know, the universe will go splodey some day in the far far future and end...so don't worry about it, it's a long way off.
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OnTheWayOut
Why cant the universe be eternal to?'
Because known evidence and existing physical laws falsify this.
Hilarious. Perry accepts "known evidence and existing physical laws" to defend his beliefs.
Alright, the fact is that science can pretend they understand this with complicated explanations, but something had to either appear out of nowhere or else it really was eternal. Even in a realm where there was no god, there had to be mass or energy at the beginning of the universe. Even if it was a singularity that started the "big bang" according to theory, where was the mass/energy that made up the singularity created or was it always there for eternity in one shape or form?
In other words, the widely known Big Bang theory doesn't explain how the initial conditions came about, only what happened after that theoretical instant. But rest assured, there are geniuses out there trying to figure it out: http://www.amazon.com/Before-Big-Bang-Prehistory-Universe/dp/0312385471. Still, we will never know.
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OnTheWayOut
The best answer I have heard for the beginning of the universe was that we have to stop thinking in universal laws and in "cause and effect." None of that applies when there was no universe. Time itself did not exist until the universe came to be. There was no "eternity" for God or anything else- it simply did not exist. It wasn't a vacuum, it was nothingness. There was no moment before the big bang because moments did not exist yet.
That sounds like a cop-out because we cannot easily break out of our way of thinking, so we are back to saying that science just doesn't know.