What---if anything---can we learn from AYN RAND'S philosophy?

by Terry 93 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry

    Tammy says:

    God is love. God is just. God is merciful and forgiving. God is spirit. God is what Jesus showed Him to be. God is the creator of the universe. God is eternal.

    There's a few positives for ya! Ayn must be talking to the wrong people :)

    Tammy

    Tammy,

    Aren't these just slogans?

    What you have said about God consists of assertions without evidence or even an attempt at presenting ideas about God based on something...anything at all.

    Darn it---let's discuss IDEAS!!

    For example:

    If God is Love why did he drown pregnant women and small children in Noah's day or burn them alive with hot sulphur and brimstone in Sodom? I want you to give me your THINKING on these things. Thanks!

  • Terry
    Terry

    Critical thinkingis great, IF you do it with an open mind and avoid extremisim.

    Give us some examples of Critical thinking done with a closed mind and extremism, please.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    That it's important to share different ideas, even if they would be unhealthy for society in execution.

  • Terry
    Terry

    That it's important to share different ideas, even if they would be unhealthy for society in execution.

    Okay....such as???

  • dgp
    dgp

    Marked.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    Okay....such as???

    Such as encouraging the satisfaction of your own needs above anything and everything else. On the individual level, not much impact, but on the corporate level, disaster.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I knew it would be tough to get a discussion going about IDEAS and CONCEPTS.

    But, I wonder why?

    After all, presumably we all think.....don't we?

    How?

    What do we know and how do we know it?

    That is the basic question of philosophy.

    Ayn Rand starts with "self".

    You start by using your "self" as the standard. Without LIFE nothing can have value.

    How is life sustained except by conscious effort?

    What is the best way to use that effort to improve and build on your life?

    Rational and reasonable steps take you from merely being alive to making something beneficial out of that life.

    Step by step you go from self to society at large. That is what Philosophy considers.

    What is YOUR standard if not "self".

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    Give us some examples of Critical thinking done with a closed mind and extremism, please.

    Here is one, I first heard of Rand from Mike Mentzer (RIP) the former pro bodybuilder that was a huge fan of hers.

    Mike used her views to define his body building method know as "heavy Duty" which is a type of HIT ( High Intensity training) strength training.

    Mike was very critical in his thinking not only in regards to why HIT was so effective, perfect really, but as to why the other systems weren't.

    He was right and everyone else was wrong.

    Well, he was closed minded in regards to his system and all the rest, he viewed all that was right with his stuff and disreagred all the was right with the other stuff.

    His views were, indeed "correct", but the issue is that they weren't the only ones to be correct.

    Mike could see that, to him reality was not subjective, if it worked for him and his trainees, then it was the way to go and better than anything else.

    I am a huge fan of Mike and his HIT training, but it is NOT the best for everyone and many people make great gains with other systems too.

    Mike believed that reality is uniform and in the world of physical performance, that is not the case.

    One man's physical reality is not anothers.

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    I think that Rand's philosophy works well for individuals finding separate identity and independence, because we all need to do that at some point. I find it useful for adolescents who are trying to find their individual identity out of the many ideas and philosophies thrown at them, which is completely necessary.

    The problem would be to mindlessly accept HER philosophies on everything and apply them with a broad stroke to every situation.

    Politically, individualism only works to a degree. We have to work and exist as a society, albeit with some necessary concession to individuality and individual rights. No one gets to be a rugged individualist in every situation, and certainly, we can't all go off and make laws only to suit ourselves or our small group of people who happen to have a few common goals without coming into constant conflict with another group who has their own desire to have the same, law and rule that suits only them.

    Consensus is required to exist somewhat peacefully outside of individual constructs...such as marriage or clubs, or even government, although the right to dissent and peacefully and systematically change law must also exist, of course.

    We had that for thousands of years, each little tribe wanting what other one's had, and different rules and laws, and we were constantly at war with each other, apparently.

    Some degree of peace requires a degree of consensus and concession that I don't really find in Rand's philosophies about what is best for the individual.

    It could be said that the rights of the individual are always going to be somewhat at odds with the rights of the majority. If someone can find a form of government by consensus, or in other words, democracy that fully gives each individual their rights in every situation, I've love to hear about it.

    I'm sure there have been some fancy dissertations written about how the right of the individual must sometimes, judiciously bow to the right of the majority, and how, at times, the right of the few must also prevail.

    Hopefully, a process of government can have enough flexibility built into it that it accomodates both when necessary.

    Hell even Star Trek has that "needs of the one sometimes outweigh the needs of the many" idea bandied about....and it's true, sometimes, a minority has such a pressing constitutional right to amend an injustice or to conform to Constitutionality that it supercedes the right of the majority. Slavery for example, and, also female sufferage, the right to vote.

    Everything I know about life, I learned from TV shows, actually. *G*

  • dgp
    dgp

    Terry, you and I like the same books. I just ordered this one.

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