So your telling me you can be an a**hole until you get bapitized, and other tales... (page 2)

Etude

Holy crap! What a mess. Still, I was hoping for a few more messy details, some more dirt or something. I feel like a peeping tom. It's like watching car races: somehow in the back of your mind you want to see a spectacular crash while dreading what happens to the people in the race. What doesn't surprise me is that strange status that some people enjoy where they are part of the JW “community” but aren't really one of them. My dad was in that state for many years although he didn't really attend meetings.

I don't think this is a going to end well. It will never again be what it was. The only blessing may be that members of the family take sides away from the JWS including you BF.

Etude.

WuzLovesDubs

Yes you can...and that includes being a murderer or a pedophile. There is this line of before and after with them. No matter what you did before you were baptized you apparently did before you "were in the truth and knew Jehovah" so you were ignorant of such basic things as you shouldnt bludgeon other people and children shouldnt be raped. So they just let those individuals go wander in the congregation amongst the others and no one knows the difference. This is with a full confession and knowledge of the elders that these perps did what they did mind you.

However if you have been around the "truth" a long time and never got baptized, the wonderful loving assholes who make up those clans called "the friends" will shun you internally. Its called "marking" and frankly isnt any different than getting disfellowshipped in the long run. They are very unforgiving and they never forget. There isnt a one of them either who isnt a flagrant sinner that just hasnt been caught yet and they are all just happy as pigs in shit to cast the first stones. I couldnt WAIT to get the hell out from under them all.

Perhaps this all will be a cleansing and a bringing to light of things in the family and the status quo wont be acceptable any more to any of them. I hope it all shakes out in a positive way, particularly since there are children in the picture.

hugs

Confuzzled

Mama has become co-dependent on somebody that is neither son, or husband, or even related. Se has developed an odd relationship w/somebody and its a cross between "mother-henning" and an emotional relationship. The dude is about 35. He is a waste and is using her, her money, her time, her car, ect. Thats all the detail I'm willing to give.

I actually think somebody convicted of 2nd degree murder, or manslaughter is far more redeemable then a pedophile...but thats not the point of the thread.

Its a damn shame that people actually by into this, like my boyfriend, who is really looking for redemption, and honestly, wholeheartdly believes that his sins will be washed away. The sad thing is that he is TRULY repentant of his past, but he doesn't understand, or believe what grace is. It's terrible. The cult feeds on guilt. Guilt=$$$. The more guilty you feel, the more they are apt to trap you, at least that what it seems like from an outsider's POV.

serenitynow!

Yeah they definitely do not believe in grace. If the bible is to be believed, our sins are covered/forgiven through the blood of Jesus. So the elders and their man-made JCs don't even figure in that equation. If they can't guilt and mark people though, they won't have any control over folks. And control is very important in this cult.

Mad Sweeney

Control is ALL IMPORTANT. It is what the Borg is ALL ABOUT. There is no other reason for their asinine rules and regulations and behavior modification techniques.

Confuzzled

I've read that term "marked" quite a few times and didn't know quite what it meant until now. Sorta like an unofficial shunning, am I right? Would I be using the term wrong if the next time the discussion about Mama comes up, if I say something like, "Well, if you actually dealt with the situation head-on like the family should, instead of running to people like the elders who know nothing of the the situation, and "marking" her like the cong did......"

Am I using it right LOL?

I like to turn their lingo on him. Every once in awhile I'll get a "How the heck do you know what that means?" or "Who are you talking too?" when the subject of the cult comes up and I happen to know something.

Mad Sweeney

You're using it right.

Technically, marking is done by individuals on an individual basis. The point of it is nominally twofold: 1, to protect the one marking from the evil influence from the one marked, and 2, to shame the marked individual into rethinking his/her course of action. Of course the REAL reason for it is that people not obsessively busy with the Borg lifestyle program can show those still IN exactly what kind of great life they are missing. Shun them and you never get to see the other side of the story; you just go through life assuming they're evil and miserable and believing that you're spiritual and happy.

Sometimes marking is "encouraged" at the meeting. If someone is well-known to be committing, or have committed a particular "sin" that isn't quite bad enough for disfellowshipping (or because that one like Mama was never baptized and therefore can't be DFd) there is often a meeting part on the appropriateness of marking individuals who engage in those activities. The majority of the congregation know who is being talked about and the rest find out as quickly as they can. That way everyone can shun an individual without any official congregational decision being made or announced.

It's one of the most evil things Dubs do.

Confuzzled

I can't say Ma doesn't deserve "tough love" from her own family. I don't however think that it's anybody from the Borg's business to be involved. It's causing her husband more heartache then anything else. The Bible is more then clear about gossip, and "marking" just seems like sanctioned gossip.

Mad Sweeney

It absolutely IS sanctioned gossip. Dubs are the WORST GOSSIPS I have ever known. They justify it the same way they justify the "generation of 1914" blunder: redefinition of key words.

To a Dub, gossip is UNTRUE statements about other people that are usually hurtful. As long as it is true, and especially if it is couched in terms that show a desire to "protect the congregation" or "keep the congregation clean" it isn't considered gossip. It DOES NOT MATTER if it hurts people or even completely ruins their life; if it is true, it's fair game.

Confuzzled

It's so scary when things I am told read back verbatim on this board or other websites. It's a script. "Keeping the congregation clean". I heard that a few days ago.

Ever seen the movie "The Chronicles of Riddick"? I feel like I'm watching that movie play out sometimes.

So your telling me you can be an a**hole until you get bapitized, and other tales...

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