I like the people in my Kingdom Hall!

by lavozsa 33 Replies latest jw experiences

  • lavozsa
    lavozsa

    This may sound like a funny title, but it is actually true. Just to give a brief background on myself, I've been a JW for nearly 12 years now. I didn't grow up in a JW family, nor is anyone else in my immediate family a JW (except my wife and her family). I came in contact with some JW friends back about 13 years ago and studied with an elder and decided that it seemed like everything made sense. I was a non-practicing Catholic, so my bible knowledge was very limited. My family gave me some grief about it initially, but they've come to accept it and our relationships are still very strong. I met my wife 12 years ago at the hall and we've been happily married ever since. She grew up a JW and her parents, especially her mom are very stout JWs.

    Fast forward to today. Over the last couple of years, after the birth of our son, I have been taking a much closer look at several key issues; blood, birthdays, the organization and most recently, the "Generation". I've pointed out my findings to my wife (who is very open minded, but yet has had the "truth" imbedded into her her entire life) and she has suggested I talk to the elders. I have had many talks with my elders and they have been completely honest with me and admitted that the society has been wrong on several issues but that there is a refinement of knowledge as the end draws near. I've pointed out the "generation" issue and research to my wife and she is slowly starting to come around that the society is trying to cover their behind with the modification of some of their core beliefs. I even pointed out to her at a meeting a couple of weeks ago how the society in the Watchtower study article changed the reference to Rutherford's talk "Millions now living WILL never die" to "Millions now living MAY never die". I think that she was a bit surprised at that. We're both in good standing with the congregation and attend meetings about 50% of the time due to our busy schedules but I have not gone out door to door for over a year now because of the hypocrisy of the message.

    My dilemna is that I have come to realize how the society will bend their teachings to not have to come out and say that they are wrong and that millions of people have been mislead for so many years, but yet, I really do enjoy the friendships of the people at the hall, including the elders. The people in my hall and the elders are very up to date with their thinking and handling of situations, which differs greatly from the people and elders at my in-laws hall. They know I haven't been out in service for over a year and do occassionally invite me to work with them or informally try and give some words of encouragement at informal meetings, but they are never persistent nor over bearing in their attempts.

    I would like to get some opinions of whether I should ease my way out, or just keep on going with the understanding with the elders and my wife that I don't agree with the society on several key points, not going out in service and that we'll be celebrating my son's next birthday? I know that my wife is starting to see my point, but I think that she fears a some backlash from her parents as well as not knowing how to let go of something that has been so dear to her for so many years. She was a full time pioneer for 6 years before we were married. We're both in our mid 30's now. I know that some may say to make a clean break, but as I mentioned, we have some close relationships with friends in the hall who know my arguments and may even secretly agree with me. We do have several friends who are not JWs and know that we are, but don't think anything of it because we never press or preach the "truth" to them, so they probably think that most JWs are as easy going as we are. Don't get me wrong, we don't smoke and don't get crazy partying, but we do drink in social settings, watch R rated movies and in general have a appreciation and respect for other people and their beliefs. This is my dilemna.

    Any advice or comments would be welcomed :)

  • dozy
    dozy

    I think that many JWs (like myself) are / were broadly in the same situation as you are - quite happy in the congregation with good friends yet became increasingly aware of the inconsistencies & downright lies of the Org.

    I don't think that it is sustainable to be openly critical of the society & even want to celebrate birthdays - that is a one way ticket to being DFd. Maybe the elders and the congregation are cutting you a bit of slack at the moment , but as soon as people become aware that you have apostate views , friends will drop off very quickly - phone calls get ignored , texts go missing , facebook friends suddenly delete themselves.

    If you can stomach keeping a low profile , ducking & diving most of the meetings , not going out on the ministry , then fine (I think we all know a few JWs in these circumstances) but I don't think that this can be sustained for a long time as inevitably people start asking questions & elders will feel obligated to pry (especially if you have already confided your doubts in them.)

    From a JW standpoint , the 2 most important aspects of being a JW are (1) Obeying & never criticising the FADS/GB/WTBTS and (2) going out on the ministry. If you aren't doing either of these things and have no intention of changing then I really don't see how you can stay as an active or even nominal JW in the long term.

  • Gayle
    Gayle

    whether I should ease my wayout

    yes, for now, especially because of your wife and her family,, If you become strongly vocal now, you will see the "nice" factor of your KH JWs change dramatically.

    You obviously have a lot of 'common sense' and wisdom. In the meantime, I recommend you reading a lot, like "Crisis of Conscience" by Ray Franz, previously a Governing Body member exposing the inner workings of the GB. He is a humble person and does not harbor any hatred toward JWs, but exposes great accountability to the leadership about its falsehood and manipulation of the Bible. There are other 'must reads' that members here will recommend.

    Then, at some point you will have to 'move on' for your son, so he can grow up with freedom of mind and enjoy childhood to its fullest (birthdays to celebrate, sports and other activities, education to his fullest interests). He will not have to grow up with ridiculous JW burdens of going to empty, boring meetings and door to door, and not having to carry ridiculous issues that JW make little ones carry on their little naive shoulders.

    So many best wishes for you and your family.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    I liked the people in my KH, too. Unfortunately, all they could offer me was conditional love and friendship. I've upgraded.

    Welcome!

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I like most of the people at my wife's Kingdom Hall too. A life "In the Truth" can be warm and kindly, if not very exciting.. It is true that congregations can differ enormously in their attitude and warmth.

    But is it true? Does it teach truth or falsehood? Can you stomach singing songs that extol their false beliefs? Can you support a ban on blood surgery? How can a person with real knowledge go house to house and deliver magazines that may do real harm to people's lives and that disrespect God by calling him a mass killer ?????

    No, I am a passive observer at the Hall, for my wife's sake .. I can take no part in it, even though they are nice people

  • undercover
    undercover
    I like the people in my Kingdom Hall!
    I really do enjoy the friendships of the people at the hall, including the elders. The people in my hall and the elders are very up to date with their thinking and handling of situations, which differs greatly from the people and elders at my in-laws hall. They know I haven't been out in service for over a year and do occassionally invite me to work with them or informally try and give some words of encouragement at informal meetings, but they are never persistent nor over bearing in their attempts.

    I like most of the people I work with also. I say also, because your friendships at the hall are basically the same as friendships at your place of work. You're thrown together for a common cause so you learn to associate with people of different backgrounds and likes/dislikes. Some of them become friends outside of work even...others are just acquaintances and the only social setting you see them in is the company picnic or xmas party.

    When you leave one job for another, you lose most of those work "friendships", because they weren't real friendships. Sure, you may have made a couple of friends that you'll keep up with but the majority...gone.

    Same at the KH. Quit going to meetings for 3 months and see how many "friends" actually call you up to go to dinner or a fun day out? You'll get "sheparding" calls from elders, you might get calls from "friends" who are "concerned" but not to get together. The more you miss "work" (the KH) the more you'll be forgotten.

    Friendships at the KH are, by and large, conditional on your maintaining some semblance of spirituality, even if you are faking it ('cause it's all about appearances anyway but that's a subject for another thread). Once you stand up and say, "I'm not going anymore", your so-called KH friends will leave you like rats jumping from a sinking ship.

    Of course that's only the experience that most of us have had, your actual mileage may vary. Good luck on your way to freedom from an oppressive religion. Methinks if you make your son's b-day celebration too public, you may be more free from this religion than you expect...

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Welcome, Lavoz.

    Awesome analogy, UnderCover!

    Sylvia

  • Coffee House Girl
    Coffee House Girl

    Everyone has already said what I was thinking after reading your post, welcome to you! From the voices of experience, no matter how "liberal" your JW friends seem to be, once you take the steps to celebrate birthdays & step too far out of line, your JW friends will scatter. They will feel they need to put up a wall between you and them to protect them from being labeled as "spiritually weak" or apostate.

    I had a JW friend who I used to talk all the time with about the R rated movies we saw, rock concerts we went to, and we would keep it on the DL so that elders didn't find out what we were doing... but when I faded and told him I wasn't comming back, he dropped me like a hot potato- he had no choice. It is all about survival in the borg, survive at all costs...

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Quit going to meetings for 3 months and see how many "friends" actually call you up to go to dinner or a fun day out? You'll get "sheparding" calls from elders, you might get calls from "friends" who are "concerned" but not to get together. The more you miss "work" (the KH) the more you'll be forgotten.

    Friendships at the KH are, by and large, conditional on your maintaining some semblance of spirituality, even if you are faking it ('cause it's all about appearances anyway but that's a subject for another thread). Once you stand up and say, "I'm not going anymore", your so-called KH friends will leave you like rats jumping from a sinking ship.

    This is my experience as well. The worst part, IMO, is that they really think they love you. Their minds are twisted into thinking that behavior is what real love is. Sick, twisted, evil cult mind control.

  • mentallyfree31
    mentallyfree31

    When you have good JW friends, it can be very heartbreaking. But you have to realize the hard truth: When your friends find out that you do not believe this is God's organization and that you do not believe this stuff anymore, their friendship will flip off like a light switch. Especially when you eventually get DF'd or labeled apostate, these "friends" will never speak to you again. So the reality is that in order to retain these friendships, you would have to be silent and engage in a game of pretending to be a JW, pretending to believe what they believe. You will have to filter all your thoughts so that everything that comes out of your mouth sounds like a JW.

    For me, it was far more advantageous to pursue new friends who do not care what my religious beliefs are. With my new friends, I can chage religions once a year if I like, and they won't care at all. As JW's, we really lived in a bubble and thought that we can only be close friends with people that thought just like us. This is actually just a strong control mechanism that the WTS uses to keep us in the JW bubble. As long as everybody around us was smiling and grinning and saying that they were happy and that all this makes sense, it's very difficult to start thinking critically and realize that something is wrong.

    Best of luck to you lavozsa. And welcome to the board. Be sure to read these books if you haven't already:

    1 - Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz

    2 - Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan

    3 - Captives of a Concept by Don Cameryn

    It's pretty amazing to realize that people figured all this out DECADES before you or me ever studied and joined.

    -mentallyfree31-

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