Are you SEEKING the TRUTH of the bible unaided?

by EndofMysteries 38 Replies latest jw friends

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  EndofMysteries

  Hey,

  I'm hoping some on here, maybe realizing that what the bible really teaches, no church or religion has it. Your learning and working hard to uncover it's true message.

  I am doing that, and looking for others who are as well. Compare notes, and work on some topics together. I just can't imagine with what I'm learning right now, alone, what a small group could achieve.

  AND PLEASE, I am not able to 'teach' at this moment. I'm really just looking for some wholehearted study partners.

  Here is a small list of where I've gone so far(currently learning or getting clearer understanding after finding more scriptures mimicking it), incase your on the same subject or ran into it as well, to see if we are on the same page so to speak, I've also hit many of the 'stumbling' blocks in the bible many hit on their quest which normally then dismiss it as word of man or inaccurate and on many found the reason.....

  - almost the entire old testament contains prophecy and details into the last days

  - the God of Israel may not quite be what the world is lead to believe, or atleast all mentions of him

  - a possible doubleside meaning in Revelation

  - King of North/South, and most prophecies, actually repeated and detailed in many other books of bible

  - Greater indepth details about God, and his son, and heavenly affairs

  - the sealed scroll in Rev, which the 7 thunders spoke of, hidden in the bible

  - hidden prophesies which for some reason, the world has not caught onto the very basic means of locating them and discerning them

  - exact details with what is going to transpire up till the end

  - The 1,000 year reign quite different then had been taught

  - Resurrection different then we had been taught
• 

  notverylikely

  Sheesh, ANOTHER person that's figured it all out? You're like, the 5th one here today.

  And you are right about one thing, the God of the OT is not what people think, he was a re-hashed Caananite god that was ONE of the son's of god, Baal's big brother, so to speak, that the Israelites commandeered for their own use.
• 

  JeffT

  Yes, I'm seeking the truth of the Bible unaided. Which means I don't need you either.
• 

  Terry

  We cannot simply ASSUME there is anything divine inside the bible.

  If you start out already accepting that as a "given" you are sunk before you begin.

  The Muslim automatically accepts that the Koran is the revealed word of God speaking directly. He never tests that premise.

  The presupposition of DIVINE MIND in writing has to be tested FIRST. Otherwise you are spinning your wheels.

  Some quick facts about the Bible.

  1.When you pick up your Bible you assume it is translated well enough to clearly connect you to what God "said". But, you are holding a translation from some group of manuscripts and not others. Your translator(s) had a methodology according to their own belief system. The manuscripts they selected were not originals, but, copies stemming from other copies in a long, long history (or tree) of families of manuscripts. NONE of those was original.

  2.No uncorrupt, unchanged Original autograph manuscripts exist in the entire world. All translations (yes, ALL) are guesswork combined with accretions, additions, subtractions and editorial changes over a vast amount of time.

  3.Every bible scholar of any reputable background acknowledges some degree of assertion is involved in where confidence begins and actual proof ends when it comes to error vs preservation of some "pure message".

  4.What those missing "originals" contained is deduced and not actually known. Many hands had their way over the centuries. Movements within the church (and outside) pushed and pulled translations toward and away from certain readings.

  5.For 1500 years the bible was not read by any but the wealthy or by those schooled in Latin (or Hebrew/Greek)/

  6. The bible that existed for 1500 years (until Luther) had about 73 official books included in the canon. Luther (and Protestant anti-Catholics) stripped the bible down to 66 books and argued over whether several which made it should not have been left out.

  7. Thousands of available stems, snippets, shreds, scrolls and manuscripts have turned up over the centuries from various sources and families of previous writings. Thousands of errors have been identified as well as how those errors were made.

  8.Many additions and removals were due to honest translators trying to make sure their copy "made sense" and harmonized with other bible books. This was done BY CHANGING the actual words!

  9.Centuries of pious fraud eradicated a firm and provably honest pure copy which is identical to any original because there is no original to compare with.

  10. Arguments over doctrine cannot be PROVED by citing proof text for the simple and logical reason WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL WORDS ACTUALLY WERE!

  So, the honest broker of bible study can study all he wants to and NEVER KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE MEANS because we don't have the actual words of its writers!

  The truth of this is easily demonstrated.

  Martin Luther said the Holy Spirit could guide any believing Christian to understand his bible by prayer and a humble attitude. The result is thousands of competing (and disagreeing) denominations ALL CLAIMING TO BE TRUE CHRISTIANS but who think the other denominations are false.

  How do they prove it? They cite bible texts!

  Now, go seek the "truth" all you want. Just don't fool yourself in the process.

  There is no "there" there.
• 

  EndofMysteries

  notverlikely- read it again, I don't got it all figured out, and I'm not offering to teach, again anybody on any of those topics or related, an exchange of scriptures and points, or they can just tell me which scriptures and thoughts they have, I know it will be beneficial.

  BUT, I do got a question notverlikely....... - just within the bible itself, any scriptures you have supporting your statement or just historical references? Even if just that, any you would share I'd like to look at. One mystery so far, is I am trying to understand how or why (unless the translation is wrong and need a better one), would some scriptures and books in the bible, inspired by that God, also accuse/expose him too?

  JeffT - again, read next time, I did not offer to teach, I specifically said I won't. Anyone on those topics, or related, want to see what scriptures and materials they've read and used to compare and answer with.
• 

  notverylikely

  just within the bible itself, any scriptures you have supporting your statement or just historical references? Even if just that, any you would share I'd like to look at

  You're starting out with a bias.."or just historical references"... wilful ignorance is so sad. try googling "yahweh el" and read what you find.
• 

  EndofMysteries

  Terry - Yes, I understand that. I've gone into interlinear, different scrolls, etc. When I am narrowed down to a very important scripture, I do look in several different interlinears, from different scrolls, and such.

  I've also gone beyond the bible, also looking into ancient mythology, book of enoch, dead sea scrolls, book of adam and eve, book of jubillees, book of jasher, Quran, etc.

  I am focusing on the bible right now. Here is why I am studying it very seriously..........

  1. It's warning and message is in harmony in a way I've never even seen noticed or taught before.

  For example, - I am NOT adding any comments here, but here are a bunch of RELATED scriptures from many different books of the bible. Gonna make a thread on this, for a different reason.

  Duet 28:49 - Jehovah will raise up against you a nation far away, a nation whose tongue you will not understand........51 they will eat the fruit of your domestic........52 they will beseige you within your gates....

  Is 5:26 - and he has raised upa signal to a great nation far away, and he has whistled to it at the extremeity of the earth.....

  Jer 5:15 - Here I am bringing in upon you men a nation from far away, O house of Israel, it is a nation of long ago, a nation whose language you do not know.

  Daniel 11:40 - and the king of the north will storm with chariots and horsemen and with many ships, and he will certainly enter into the lands and flood over and pass through

  Is 7:17-19 - Jehovah will bring aginst you and against your people and .......the king of Assyria. nd it must occur in that time that Jehovah will whistle for the flies that are at the extremity of the nile canals of Egypt and for the bees that are in the land of Assyria.

  Ezekiel 16:37-40 - here I am collecting all those passionately loving you, I will collect them together against you....and they must bring up agaist you a congregation and pelt you with stones and slaughter you with their swords.

  Ez 17:17 - and by a great military force and by a multitudinious congregation......

  Is 8:7 - And he will certainly come up over all his streambeds and go over all his banks 8 and move on through Judah. He will actually flood and pass over. Up to the neck he will reach. And the outspreading of his wings must occur to fill the breadth of your land, O Im·man′u·el!”

  Daniel 11:10 - 10 “Now as for his sons, they will excite themselves and actually gather together a crowd of large military forces. And in coming he will certainly come and flood over and pass through. But he will go back, and he will excite himself all the way to his fortress.

  Joel 2:1-4 - There is a people numerous and mighty, one like it has not been made to exist from the indefinite past, and after it there will be none again ...

  Numbers 24:24 - 22 But there will come to be one to burn Ka′in down.
  How long will it be till As·syr′i·a will carry you away captive?”
  23 And he carried further his proverbial utterance and went on to say:
  “Woe! Who will survive when God causes it?
  24 And there will be ships from the coast of Kit′tim,
  And they will certainly afflict As·syr′i·a,

  Daniel 11:29 - 29 “At the time appointed he will go back, and he will actually come against the south; but it will not prove to be at the last the same as at the first. 30 And there will certainly come against him the ships of Kit′tim, and he will have to become dejected.
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  Gerard

  Hello, dear prophet for the month of May. As I told you before, you can make the Bible say anything, it you torture it long enough.
• 

  Black Sheep

  I'm quite sure Russell's quest was similar to yours...........

  ....... and the outcome won't be much different .......

  ........ you'll go to your death bed like everyone else before you .......

  ....... regardless of what you believed and how you treated your family, friends and neighbors

  Cheers

  Chris
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  JeffT

  OK, so let's take it one step farther. You don't need me (or anybody else either). Read it and let your own conscience be your guide.