Are there any decent arguments for God's existence which do not fall prey to the argument from ignorance fallacy? (i.e. God of the gaps)

by Psychotic Parrot 120 Replies latest jw friends

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  Psychotic Parrot

  Deputy Dog,

  It isn't neutral no, i never said it was. I am intellectually neutral (hence i am agnostic) but personally i lean towards non-existence. It is not my intellect which compels me to do so, but my gut, so to speak.

  But this thread was not supposed to be about me or my gut instincts. It was supposed to be about the intellectual side of things, & in that sense we should all be agnostics, sitting on the fence, because the evidence does not really point either way at this moment in time.

  Whether we choose to be theist, atheist or deist is irrelevent to this thread.
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  JWoods

  What does that change? Someone can occupy either of those positions & still claim to belief in a God. The former is a gnostic & the latter is an agnostic, but either of those people can be a theist or an atheist.

  No, you plainly cannot take the position of (religious) Atheism or (religious) Agnosticism and still logically claim to believe in a (religious) God.
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  Psychotic Parrot

  JWoods,

  Well no, you can't be an atheist & believe in a God. But you can be agnostic & believe in a God. In fact, i would argue that most theists are agnostics really. Because they cannot say for certain that they know there is a God, not really, & plenty of them do not.

  P.S. This is still all just semantics by the way, we're actually going off topic with all of this.
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  sir82

  They are mutually exclusive in the simple idea that you either claim to know there is no God, or, you claim to not know if there is a God.

  That's not true:

  Agnosticism = "Whether a God exists or not, it would be impossible for us know anything about him". I.e., we are unable to know about God, even if he exists.

  Atheism (most common form, anyway) = "There does not exist sufficient evidence to say with any degree of certainty whether God exists or not." I.e., maybe we are able to know about God, but we don't have enough evidence yet.

  There is a form of atheism which does more strongly assert that God cannot exist, but it is by far a minority viewpoint among those who call themselves atheists.
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  Psychotic Parrot

  sir82,

  There is a form of atheism which does more strongly assert that God cannot exist, but it is by far a minority viewpoint among those who call themselves atheists.

  Indeed, & even so called 'militant atheists' like Richard Dawkins & Christopher Hitchens would not fit into this catagory. Both of them freely admit that we cannot be certain at this stage whether God exists or not.
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  Deputy Dog

  Psycho

  I am intellectually neutral

  So you say

  But as i've said to Deputy Dog already, this is pure semantics, nothing more.

  It's just that your use of "semantics" hides your real leaning.

  But this thread was not about me or my gut instincts. It is about the intellectual side of things, & in that sense we should all be agnostics on the fence because evidence does not really point either way at this moment in time.

  We look at the same evidence, and disagree on what it means, because we lean in total opposite directions.
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  Psychotic Parrot

  Deputy Dog,

  So you say

  Oh i see, i'm a liar. I get you now!

  It's just that your use of "semantics" hides your real leaning.

  My use of "semantics" hides my real leaning? I've made my 'real' leaning quite clear, so how can i be accused of hiding it?

  Get real.

  We look at the same evidence, and disagree on what it means, because we lean in total opposite directions.

  Yes, i admit that it doesn't point in either direction, while you cherry pick aspects of it that point in the direction you prefer. Now you tell me who is being more intellectually honest here?
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  wobble

  Dep Dawg said "We look at the same evidence, and disagree on what it means"

  I haven't seen any evidence proffered yet for the existence of God on this thread, apart from password's cut and paste jobby, which was quickly despatched.

  So "Are there any decent arguments for the existence of god.........." ??????
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Psychotic Parrot

  I have commented on your thread and tried to help out but You have ignored my last post and instead used your time to take another swipe at passwordprotected, who has left the room, chastened and contrite.

  You now state:

  Well no, you can't be an atheist & believe in a God. But you can be agnostic & believe in a God.

  An atheist has concluded that God does not exist. A agnostic has not yet come to a conclusion. Only a believer can believe in God. There is such a creature as an agnostic theist, who tries to please everyone. Now that really is so not you!

  Anyhow, you seem to be running this unpleasant thread for personal reasons that have little to do with the subject posed. You appear to enjoy contention and conflict. You should have become a gladiator and got it all out of your psychotic system.
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  Terry

  God should be the 800 pound gorilla in the universe IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE.

  But, God turns out to be a flicker out of the corner of your eye and a tiny noise in the middle of the night to disturb your sleep.

  God is explosively elusive.

  God is an exclamation point where nothing has been said.

  God is the conversation little girls have with their favorite dolly.

  God is the hard sell from the overbearing know-it-all with a black book in his hand pointing at onion skin pages and words in red letters.

  God is deafening silence.

  God is the funniest joke nobody told right yet everybody smiles.

  God is a woobie.

  If the universe has a teat to suckle it is God.

  People who know nothing write books for other people who know nothing to read about God.

  God proves YOUR point and you are always right!

  God is the saddest box you opened on your birthday, the call that wasn't returned, the look on your father's face when you didn't win the game.

  God is the check we write for more funds than we have hoping nobody will cash it before we do.

  God is mumbling in the dark when our day sucks and drifting off to sleep before we remember to say "amen."