Are there any decent arguments for God's existence which do not fall prey to the argument from ignorance fallacy? (i.e. God of the gaps)

by Psychotic Parrot 120 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  wobble

  Dear P Parrot,

  I still think this is a great thread.

  It has exposed the fact that there are no decent arguments for the existence of God.

  We who ask for some are just attacked as "having a contradictory world-view" etc. without an argument for god's existence being presented, very JW like technique, that.

  Our logic may be faulty, but that does not mean that the theists have a better "world-view" , a bit like the JW "You believe in the trinity, so that makes me right " kind of reasoning.

  Let us have a decent argument, and a shred of proof for the existence of God, come on Theists, have a word with Him ,he should be able to give you "the words you need to speak" Luke said the H.S would do that for you !
• 

  Psychotic Parrot

  wobble,

  Yeah, i don't so much mind being accused of being biased against the possibility of the existence of God or of hating God. Although i think the idea of me hating someone i don't believe in is silly, but i appreciate that for the people saying i hate God, He is very real & it is very possible for someone to hate him, even an atheist, & let's face it, the God they believe in is a bit of a jerk!

  But i do hate it when my arguments are misrepresented as being attempts to prove that God doesn't exist, that really irks me & it is exactly the same fallacious tactic that William Lane Craig uses in his debates, he is such a snake, he really is!

  It's also really annoying to see the arguments i am attempting to refute pasted as responses to my refutations! How circular & just plain dumb is that! It's like a conversation something going like this:

  Apologist: "God must exist because we exist!"

  Atheist: "Maybe, but are there not alternate explanations for our existence?"

  Apologist: "No, because God must exist because we exist!"

  GAHHH!!!!!!

  But yeah, thanks wobble
• 

  notverylikely

  Yeah, the last time I smacked her about I got pinched for it, and after spending a few nights in the cooler I decided it wasn't worth the grief. These days I just drink.

  So why should we listen to an admitted wife beater and drunk?
• 

  Psychotic Parrot

  To be fair on pisswordprotected, knowing he's a wife beater & drunkard raises my opinion of him slightly.
• 

  notverylikely

  To be fair on pisswordprotected, knowing he's a wife beater & drunkard raises my opinion of him slightly.

  True. If he's still a NAMBLA member, though, he'll just be the bee's knees in my book.
• 

  tec

  To be fair, this is a discussion board, and I gave my opinion on one of my reasons other than this god of the gaps theory. In response I was told to go research my thought about humans evolving with a spiritual hunger, instead of having it discussed here. Since we have to admit to a spiritual/paranormal realm to even reach the possibility of a God, I didn't think it was off topic.

  So my fingers work just fine, PP. I just thought you were asking people for their thoughts on the question you posed in the title of your thread.

  I'm not trying to be argumentative, btw, or strike a defensive chord. Even though I admit that you kind of struck one in me by telling me to go research - assuming my fingers worked :)

  Just to be fair though - there are professional writers on this board.

  Tammy
• 

  The Scotsman

  Psychotic Parrot

  I aint going to even bother attempting to respond to your hateful arrogant posts. I thought you were looking for a discussion - it appears not.

  Why don't you type ACTUAL responses rather than just a copy/paste from other posts and saying "this is wrong"!!!!

  You attempt to crush and destroy other peoples belief without a shred of an alternative produced.

  Your conduct on this thread merely highlights why I am not in your team!!!!
• 

  The Scotsman
• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  Psychotic Parrot

  No one knows whether or not there was anything before the big bang yet. We do not know.

  Maybe it was God, maybe it wasn't. God is one explanation among many (i listed the others in my first post).

  My point is that these arguments do not prove God, they merely posit God.

  This seams to me to be a fair and rational position. It invites discussion about whether the cause of our universe was God or are their other possibilities.

  The obvious question was asked, where did God come from? There is a school of thought that God does exist but is a part of the unsolved mystery, not the beginning or ultimate cause. Does there have to be a beginning any more than there has to be an end or is that a human perspective? How could time begin or stop?

  The mistake is to assume that an open minded discussion about these matters makes one an atheist. Or that the motive of someone who is not certain of God, is to trash other peoples faith.

  I personally believe that some people actually benefit from their faith and am not sure that they would be happier if they lost it. Even those with faith still spend a lot of time on this board rationalising and trying to make sense of their beliefs. They often cannot come to the same conclusions as others who have faith. But their faith offers them a feeling of security while they grow and learn.

  You see I said, 'I personally believe.' Some would say I am mistaken in my belief but it is my belief, therefore it is subjectively real. The difference is, my belief can only become objectively real, or real outside of myself, if I can demonstrate beyond doubt that my assertion is true. This rule has to be applied to belief of any kind if we are to be honest in our argument.

  For most people, there are no two absolute sides. We are all seekers of truth, which is why we left the JWs.
• 

  Psychotic Parrot

  The Scotsman,

  Sorry, but your post was full of issues & i did what anyone would do & pointed them out, there was no hate, only reason with a tinge of irritation, due to the fact that i'm constantly being presented with this stuff everywhere i go & it just gets boring after a while. And i did propose alternatives, you can claim i didn't all you like, but i did, you just don't know how to respond to them, so you dishonestly claim they aren't there.

  If it really is arrogant of me to point out falsehood when i see it, then i'm afraid it is utterly impossible to have a debate with you. So don't be so stupid & claim you want a debate, only to then accuse me of being arrogant just because you aren't knowledgeable enough to respond to my reply, which is of course what you really meant when you said you couldn't be bothered to respond. You obviously did not want a debate, you just wanted to preach. If you want to do that, then make your own thread for it.

  It really is beyond me how someone thinks it's okay to avoid discussion with someone just because they see that person as being arrogant. I think you're all pretty arrogant, but it doesn't stop me debating you.

  I refer you to the post i made at the bottom of the last page, it sums you up to a tee.