I have an interest in Psi phenomena ever since reading 'the conscious universe'. Here is a 2 part serries on 'project alpha':
Background article:
Project Alpha (True story on Psi phenomena)
by bohm 30 Replies latest jw friends
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bohm
Hmm. Editing the html code didnt work. perhaps this will:
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metatron
Welcome to "Rashomon". Randi is no more trustworthy than the fakes he exposes.
http://www.dailygrail.com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge
There is also the Princeton Anomaly material. After 28 years, they gave up. No one was listening.
metatron
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bohm
Metatron: Can you provide an concrete example where Randi suggested an experimental setup which was unfair to the psychic?
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metatron
I believe the material I cited shows a lack of fairness in some events and , in some cases, veracity.
metatron
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bohm
Metatron: The article says a lot of stuff without much detail. Can you provide (one of) the specific example(s) you refer to along with the part of the setup that was so unfair? I mean, what exactly Randi wanted of them, what they proposed, etc.?
Lets take the PEAR experiments you mentioned. I believe the Psi-hypothesis is 1-2 coin flips out of 10'000 are better explained with Psi than with chance - thats a pretty small effect, one that is very easy to drown out with puplication bias and perhaps a broken random number generator.
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metatron
I think the article speaks for itself in regard to the supposed million dollar prize and comments by Sheldrake. In the particular case you cite I see no problem. Randi has exposed a lot of people who need to be exposed.
That said, the existence of counterfeit money does not prove that real money doesn't exist.
The PEAR effects were, indeed, small. That's why they did experiments of such extreme length, over 28 years but to no avail. Associate Remore Viewers also know the effect is small, which is why they attempt many trials, to improve the results.
If you haven't done so already, I suggest reading stuff by Russell Targ, as he has attempted to use scientific methods to create real, solid results in ESP. I'm presently reading about a game of chess played with a dead grandmaster, some years ago, thru a medium.
metatron
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bohm
metatron: Would i be correct if i say the critisism is about a hypothetical situation and not a specific case where a Psi researcher failed to negotiate an experimental situation with Randi?
I think we can both agree that Psi need extraordinary evidence since the claims are so extreme and would often violate the laws of physics. Since the Psi effects are extremely small, that mean - no matter how you slice it - a very large experimental setup. It HAS to be that way.
I know very little about Psi. I just read 'the conscious universe' and was not all that happy with the statistics...
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metatron
I see no violation of the laws of physics. If psi exists, they're not 'laws' and if this stuff works at the quantum level, it's a statistical phenomena anyway, as the quantum world is described.
The whole point of PEAR was to provide that experimental database of hard stats. It died ignored.
The article speaks for itself. The specificity of a challenge is debateable.
Sagan's popular remark about extraordinary evidence has quickly degenerated into a fallacy. Anytime evidence is uncovered, the goalposts can be moved indefinitely, as the futility of PEAR showed. Furthermore, the 'extraordinary' remark is redundant and deceiving. If the evidence isn't enough, it isn't really evidence, is it?
metatron
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