Isaac, I would guess a reasonable group of elders would let them off with a warning if they were taped as proof nothing happened, especially if the sleepover hadn't become common knowledge. That said, not all bodies of elders are reasonable. Much would depend on their personal relationship with the accused. That tends to go A LONG way in these things.
My friend got a certified letter saying he is being DF'D
by foolsparadise 83 Replies latest jw friends
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isaacaustin
Mad Sweeney,
Obviously there is not generally live footage though. I was just curious how that would be handled. It is accurate then that if it can be proven that 2 people of the opposite sex spent the night together alone in a dwelling, they could be dfed on that alone?
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Mad Sweeney
Yes, they can be DFd simply for spending the night alone in the same house.
But I can see how one could get away with it, too. Example, a single brother is working on a sister's car or something until late in the evening. He's beat and she offers for him to crash on her couch so that he can get right back to it first thing in the morning. He takes her up on the offer. Nobody knows about this.
Weeks later while golfing, he's talking to a few of his buddies, elders, and mentions what happened in that situation.
I can imagine them asking him if anyone else knows about it, and if nobody does, then letting it slide. I can also imagine them calling the sister in and making sure she keeps mum about it, too, and doesn't do it again.
The way they usually get in trouble for it is because some jealous person or busybody finds out and makes a stink. Once things go public, the crap hits the fan and the elders have to look like they're doing something. This usually results in DF and not reproof because the person who did it is usually NOT repentant because he didn't do anything wrong to be repentant for. Imagine how pissed you'd be if you were accused of fornication when you didn't even get any! You're not going to be sorry, you're going to be angry, and that's your ticket out of the Borg.
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isaacaustin
Wow. Have you ever heard of this happening before (an actual case)?
Would this be grounds for a 'scriptural' divorce (if the parties were married)?
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blondie
isaac, in the cases that I know of 2 elders parked outside the house, saw them both go in, saw neither leave, and the elders stayed outside watching to see what time one or both left.
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isaacaustin
Blondie, so they are thus guilty unless they can prove their innocence? I can imagine the scenario you just described. I am assuming it has to be an overnight stay as well?
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bubble
I say he should go with the decision and enjoy the freedom from the shackles of being a JW. But go to a local newspaper and see if they will run a piece on his story, then at least they will get some bad press from their ridiculous decision to disfellowship your friend on these grounds!!
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blondie
Yes, Isaac as I said above and the WTS says, "stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex." This obviously presumes that sex does not take place during the day time. There is no scriputre to support this, just Matthew 24:45-47 which says whatever the GB says you have to accept as gospel.
PAY ATTENTION TO YOURSELF AND TO ALL THE FLOCK
UNIT 5 (b)
111Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evidence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable.
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asilentone
I have a question if they stayed in the house overnight and they never commit any acts of immorality, and the elders df'd them, if one person wants to get reinstated and he or she writes a letter to get reinstated stating that the person never did anything wrong except staying in the house overnight, would that person eventually get reinstated without admitting they committed fornication, adultery, etc...?
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blondie
Notice asilentone in the quote above, no mention is made of "sex", just
under improper circumstances
So they would admit to staying overnight.....under improper circumstances; there is no mention of sex taking place.