Did you guys know that ALSO JW´s used to celebrate Christmas? They used to have the cross on the front cover of the WT.
Old news.
New Generation understanding tied to Freddie Franz
by 5thGeneration 121 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jookbeard
they used to outlaw organ transplants that saw thousands die world wide adhering to that doctrine that changed
the now allow blood fractions previously forbidden again letting thousands die world wide thinking they were pleasing a god
they still cover up a world wide child abuse scandal that sees law suits conducted daily
did you know they once enjoyed membership of the UN?
they covered up 2 active rampant filthy homosexuals on the elite GB (Leo Greenlees and Ewart Chitty) who were sodomizing and abusing young men in the House of Jehovah?
is there a pattern emerging Bane?
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TD
Bane,
You say to show you a scripture about kicking someone out of the congregation for not agreeing with it.
Not quite.
I asked for "....a single example in the Bible where people were thrown out of congregation for disagreeing with or doubting a false hope."
In this regard, I don't think Moses is a good example. Moses experienced true plenary inspiration, something that was rare even among Bible characters. God spoke "Face to face" with Moses. God gave Moses credentials in the form of miracles that proved that he was what he claimed to be.
When Moses told Pharoah that hail mixed with fire would fall unless the Israelites were released, that is exactly what happened. When Moses told Pharoah that darkness would descend on the land unless the Israelites were released, that is exactly what happened.
Moses never had to fumble for excuses for why it wasn't hailing yet or why it wasn't dark yet on a clear sunny day. If he had, then the people would have had a right to murmur.
Again, you need to provide an example from the Bible where God punished people for not agreeing with something that was wrong.
The JW faith does NOT expect the brothers to KEEP agreeing that 1975 is Armaggedon. That is silly to say that. It was a false hope. Yet, we are not supposed to continue believing that THAT was Armaggedon. You say that they encourage that. You are wrong.
Wow. That came out of nowhere.
I said nothing about 1975.
I spoke specifically about the interpretation of Matthew 24:34 and the Great Crowd doctrine.
If you disagree over whether the Great Crowd was really identified in 1935, it will cause you a great deal of trouble in your congregation. It does not matter that most of those who were asked to stand up at the convention would be well over 100 now if they were even still alive. That is the current light and any JW who knows what is good for them had best keep their mouth shut until it is changed.
I also said nothing about disagreement after the fact. I'm talking about recognizing a false hope for what it is beforehand. Big difference.
For example, if you disagreed with the interpretation of Matthew 24:34 that was taught for many years prior to 1995 in the year 1968, you would have also gotten into a great deal of trouble.
Have you tried asking a woman as to who her children that she MOST likes?
If a woman attempts to protect the reputation of one child who did wrong at the expense of another child who did nothing wrong, then I wouldn't have to ask.
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Quillsky
Bane, I think your Ctrl and C and V keys may be stuck. While you're checking those, may as well check Caps Lock.
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vivalavida
Bane,
I normally do not let myself be dragged into discussions like this, although I do enjoy a lot reading them. However, this time I'm going to put my 2 cents in.
First, nobody is editing your comments. You're just either, not paying attention to what you're doing, you do not know how to F O R MAT your comments, or you just RUSH to press Submit without checking first that everything looks the way you want it to look.
Second: Talking about what the disciples did in the first century. They had themselves a belief and yes, it was that BACK THEN the kingdom would be established. That is NOT wrong in and of itself. The BIG problem and the BIG difference between them and today's so called Governing Body is that the latter has PUBLISHED their beliefs for millions to believe as the truth; for millions to see it as a promise of the Creator himself for of humanity. As an example, go to your KH and take an Awake! volume from before 1995 out and look at the masthead. It is a FACT that they presented their OPINION or WISH, if you want, that the generation that saw the things of 1914 was going to be the generation who would see the end of this system of things. This was presented as the Creator's promise and was printed MILLIONS of times for LOTS of years.
Then, it did not happen. The generation that saw the events of 1914 died off. They changed their masthead and the CREATOR'S PROMISE, that was so prominently presented and published all over the world in many, many languages, turned out to be a LIE. Believe me, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between what they've done and what the first century christians did.
If you can show me where in the Bible, an apostle or a first century christian PUBLISHES his OPINION of when the end is for the rest of his christian fellowship to believe it as truth under the threat of disfellowshipping in case of not accepting it, I will agree with your comparison. The apostle Paul almost gets there when he talks about the rapture in 1 The. 4. Where he says, "we, the living who are surviving", implying that the end would be there before his demise, which, of course, did not happen. But that's now off topic.
You also keep going on and on with "it's a way of keeping on the watch". Well, I'll just mentioned the very fitting example of the "BOY WHO CRIED WOLF". He did KEEP ON THE WATCH in a very similar way like the GB does. What was the result of his KEEPING ON THE WATCH and CRYING WOLF so many times without base like the GB does? The sheep got eaten by the wolves!!!!
Something similar happens with a lot of the witnesses. They are just tired and show it by not being as zealous as the WTS would like them to be.
Third: Your comparison with Moses is definitely not even close to what happens today. Moses, according to the Bible's report, had more than once proven that he had, without a doubt, God's spirit. Just think about it, they had just witnessed ten supernatural plagues that occurred EXACTLY as they were foretold and the opening of the red sea by the power of God. Of course they deserved punishment for murmuring after having witnessed all that. But, what can the GB show for themselves as proof of having God's spirit? The fact that they keep repeating over and over again that they have it, does not count. The fact that there is increase, doesn't count, the fact that there is 'forced' unity under the menace of disfellowshipping and shunning, doesn't count either. Like I said before, they are just like the boy who cried "wolf".
And lastly, the Watchtower Library CD suffers from something called 'revisionism', things get changed and modified to hide or minimize what they actually asserted in the past. Of course, some things were repeated so much over and over and over again, that they cannot just make them go away. For quotes that you can look up on the Watchtower Library CD about 1975, take a look at this and at this (on these two sites, you'll find scans of actual Watchtower literature that you can look up on you CD).
So, what can we say in conclusion? The way the present GB acts is, in no way, even close to what the disciples of the first century did. They did not, generally, published their opinions and, when they did, they said so. And nobody was kicked out just for not believing a false hope. In other words and to use your own example, nobody was kicked out for NOT BELIEVING that the end would come in 33 AD.
Just my 2 cents, even though it looks more like 3.
Vivalavida
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BANE
Viva, Yes the apostles DID publish what they GUESSED AT! What do you think the Bible itself is? JEhovah put it in there for ALL to read. So they ARE published!! So WHAT about the masthead. I was in the truth then. It was changed. Again so what? If the apostles were wrong about it, why do you hold modern day witnesses accountable and not the apostles? It´s all the same. We ALL want to know when the end is. I have even tried to guess at it. The boy who cried wolf is a fairy tale. Are you saying the Bible is one too? Regardless of the fairy tale of the wolf, Jesus COMMANDED us to keep on the watch. Whether you like it or not. Keeping on the watch involves TALKING ABOUT IT!!! Looking into prophecies and even trying to guess the end.
Every witness I know at my hall is a go getter. I am serving in a foreign field. They are VERY zealous here.
What about the preaching work that Jesus foretold. It does count! Even though you think it does not. That proves RIGHT there they have God´s spirit. Jehovah doesn´t do miraculous things like miracles anymore. The only way to tell if one has God´s spirit is by their fruits. Right? Jehovah´s witnesses have it.
Ah your links....Your first link tries to state something was printed in the WT WITHOUT A PARAGRAPH NUMBER! Very suspicious. Modify it first. Then it has a graph which shows that people left. BASED ON WHAT? Again I don´t see a magazine with this graph in it. Sorry, MADEUP apostate garbage. The other quotes from the Life book PROVE that the society says WE ARE NOT SAYING....What more proof do you need? If I said there is ice cream in the fridge but I AM NOT SAYING THERE IS...There either IS or isn´t....1966 Awake says A FEW YEARS...Uh yeah, what is a few? Does that mean specifically 4 years? No...A few is a FEW. Could be thousands....15 years from 1975 the world WAS in MUCH WORSE SHAPE!!! It IS dangerous to live in or do you normally leave your door unlocked sir?
So that is your first link...totally destroyed by me....Let´s look at your second one...The video doesn´t even work! HAHA...SOME apostate site...You would think being SO rabid against the org that you freakin link would work...HAHAHA....The rest is a bunch of stuff someone may have said OR NOT. The person never gives a link to anything...Some PDF files prove nothing. They ALL say it MAY, PERHAPS ETC. NEVER is it dogmatic...
It´s basically crap. They probably were kicked out for being apostates. The Bible gives alot of examples!
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isaacaustin
Bane, please direct me to the Bible where I can find that the apostles published their end time predictions.
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The Oracle
LOL... just checking in to see what the old gang is up to....and what is new in the wild and crazy world of JWism.
This latest JW generation stuff has my jaw hitting the floor and my head shaking in disbelief...
I can't believe it took me soooo long to shake free from this craziness.
Glad to be out though. Life now makes perfect sense. Hoping the ranks of ex-JWs continue to swell because of this latest absolutely hilarious and ridiculous horse-bleep generation teaching.
Cheers,
The Oracle
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BANE
You want scriptures Issac? I TOLD you that apostates have forgotten the Bible! Weasly little snakes...Matthew 24:3 and Acts 1:6 The apostles SET A DATE that WAS wrong, yet Jesus didn´t malign them. Oh you don´t know the bible? Yeah, God´s word HAS BEEN PUBLISHED ALL OVER THE EARTH!
The BIBLE was published and the apostles set dates. LIVE with it! So the Witnesses are not wrong in the slightest about this.
Daniel
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Oh gee...EVEN daniel HIMSELF used the bible to guess a date! WOW!
So all you apostates are DEAD wrong about this. It is OK to try and guess a date. GIVE it up!
Course I cannot reply until 24 hours from now because the apostate watchlist has me on the world´s most dangerous Christian list! So go ahead and mock for 24 hours. Post your immature pictures Outlaw, say things that make no sense Issac, and be sure to cuss up a storm Mrsjones. It´s what you guys are best at.
By the way, is the BIGGEST apostate idiot Danny Haszard on this board? Have you seen a pic of this jerk? Homeless people have nothing on him.
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2 in the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years
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