"I promise that today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23v43 CEV
A difficult verse for Dubs to wriggle out of, without their misplaced comma in their NWT. (The T for translation is a misnomer)
mentions of going to heaven in the Bible?
by AwSnap 67 Replies latest watchtower bible
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EndofMysteries
Awsnap - Very good thing your doing. I did the same and still doing it. I think prob read whole bible (not straight through each time but from repeating books) 3/4 times in less then a year lol. After your understanding on something gets corrected or more in harmony with the bible, then it changes the meaning of many things. I do suggest taking a lot of notes. This isn't like kingdomhall/assembly notes where you repeat the same stuff over and over because there is nothing new your being told and you wanna appear your learning. This is stuff you never thought of, and want to compare to other scriptures, and may want to show others as well.
Without spending an hour to answer this question you have, here is what I see so far.
1st in the Old Testament, there is no mention of those from that time believing as soon as they die they go off somewhere, or to heaven. Solomon believed once dead, your dead. Daniel was told he would be dead, but at the end of days would be resurrected. I think the majority believed when they died, they were dead, but in the future would have life again.
For Enoch, Elijah, etc, those taken up in a storm or wind, I think there 'might' be the possibility Jehovah decided to give them instant spiritual life.
I need to check my notes and go over again, not sure if anything in old testament showed spiritual or heaven for those who died. (might be, cause many things Jesus taught were implied or straight out of old testament)
Come the new testament.....Jesus says that FLESH CAN"T inherit the kingdom of the heavens. In Matt 5 - he speaks of those who will inherit the earth, those who the kingdom of the heavens belongs to, etc.
I see in Jesus teachings, of a general hope, and also a GREATER CALLING, an option. Paul mentioned trying to 'attain to the greater calling', and also running the race. Jesus, when a man asked to follow him, Jesus toward the end mentioned, and if you want to be 'perfect' do "XXXX".
Then in all mentions of the resurrection, it's categorized. 3 different resurrections, or timings.
As for Earthly paradise............your mind will fry for awhile because nobody has this sorted out yet or from what I can find. It would be related to the new heavens and new earth.
The important thing, is keep doing what your doing. The bible teaches God will instruct, and will give insight. If you want to keep in touch with others doing the same thing you are, I am one of them. Feel free to PM me if wanna trade email addresses.
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AGuest
They do all go to heaven, dear AS (may you have peace!)... but they don't STAY there, per se. Please let me clarify.
If you are meaning "heaven" as in the part of the spirit realm where the Most Holy One of Israel "resides" (i.e., the MOST Holy)... they (those who rule with Christ - the 144,000 from among the sons of Israel AND the great crowd out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people - Rev. 5:9, 10; 7:4, 9, 15)... go there to be joined with Christ in "marriage," and event that occurs in the Bridegroom's father's house/place of dwelling. These are JOINED by the "guests" of the marriage feast, the "sheep" who are separated from the "goats" (Gog).
Once the marriage has taken place and the feast concluded... New Jerusalem (the "house/temple" made up of PEOPLE - Christ, the Cornerstone; the Apostles, the Foundation/Gates; the Prophets and Kings/Priests, Pillars; and the rest, "Living Stones")... comes down... OUT of heaven (i.e., OUT of the spirit realm)... back TO the earth (physical realm) and is situated ON the earth (such that Christ and his co-rulers rule UPON the earth - the Greek word "epi" - and not OVER the earth - which is an entirely different Greek word - as erroneously taught by the WTBTS).
It is the fact that New Jerusalem is ON the earth... that allows Satan to mislead Gog and Magog to come AGAINST that "Holy City." If the City were still in the spirit realm, there is NO WAY that either Gog (the goats that were cut off from entry into the spirit realm)... or Magog (the spirit beings that were cut off from entry into the spirit realm)... COULD come against it.
Many get this WRONG, however, because of the compilation and canonization of the Bible: there, Revelation Chapter 21, where John speaks of seeing New Jerusalem coming down "out of heaven" is situated AFTER Revelation 20:9, where Gog and Magog come against the Holy City. However, what John SEES in Revelation 21:1-8, at least... correlates with and take place DURING Revelation 20:4, 5. He sees the Holy City coming down at Revelation 21:2; however, it is ALREADY down... and upon the earth (i.e., manifest in the physical realm) when what he relates at Revelation 20:9 takes place.
It is through this that the "heavens and earth"... i.e., the spirit and physical realms... are brought back together once again, as with Eden. There, God "planted" a "spiritual" Garden IN Eden... Eden which was the physical earth from which Adham was taken. God placed Adham IN that Garden... and by means of the kind of body he had... flesh... with GOD'S blood, holy spirit... Adham could go in... AND OUT... between the physical and spirit realms. (Genesis 3:23, 24)
Christ could as well, as shown when he transfigured. THAT... is the body that those who belong to Christ are awaiting, the SPIRIT body... one with GOD'S blood... which body can go in... and out... between the spirit and physical realms. (Genesis 28:12; John 10:9) It is a body that is not confined by the physicals realm's restrictions or limited by its laws. THAT is the terrestrial body... flesh with IT'S blood... descending from the long garment of SKIN... that was given to Adham to hide his "nakedness." It was not his genitals that were being hidden - it was his "uncleanness." Spirits... cannot hide who/what they are (Mark 5:9; Job 1:6, 7).
I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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Kenneson
Deputy Dog,
The Watchtower contends that the 144,000 are before God's throne in heaven, while the great multitude are before God's throne on earth. They point to Isaiah 66:1 and 1 Kings 8:27 to bolster their claim. But, it falls way short. God's people have always worshipped before God's throne on earth. What would make Rev. 7:9 so special since they have been doing this all along anyway? The only way this makes sense is that both the 144,000 and the great multitude are before God's throne in the same location.
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Kenneson
In regards to Ps. 37:29, meek people existed in Old Testament times and they didn't have to wait for a future time for this to be fulfilled. They did inherit the land--the Promised Land. "Forever" refers towards they and their children and children's children, in contrast to the wicked of verse 28.
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Mad Sweeney
I agree, Kenneson, and even IF it does/did mean literally living forever there is STILL NO mention of it applying to dead people.
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EndofMysteries
AGuest - May I ask where you got the understanding of Gog and Magog from? I am quite interested in your beliefs and understanding of the bible and spiritual things, are they all from personal study or a certain group? Also if beyond bible, other books which ones?
I'm asking because very close and similar to where I'm heading, yet I don't see it being taught anywhere.
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AGuest
I received such things from my Lord, dear EOM (may you have peace!)... the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, JAH of Armies... and none other. That One leads me with regard to these truths... and will lead me into ALL truth... by means of an anointing with holy spirit... which anointing teaches me. By means of such spirit I hear his voice... and have learned to trust it, listen to it... and follow it. And, to date, he has not misled me once. Not once.
I do not do "personal study" - indeed, I rarely read the Bible (I pretty much only even open one when I quote from it for those who still need to "see" things "in writing"). I do share what I hear, though, with others; they are spread out, however, over the state, country, and globe. Besides my husband (here in my house), his family (here in my city and nearby cities), my daughter and a couple/few members of the Body of Christ who are within 100 miles), the others are at least 400 or more miles away. However, we do "gather" in person, from time to time (a couple/few times a year), but given the conveniences of modern technology do so more often via telephone or Internet.
Even then, we don't have "Bible" study, though. We simple share meals and our lives - we talk about everything, from our daily lives, our children and, of course, our Lord and what he may have shared with one or more of us. We also wash one another's feet... and share a small, brief meal of his "flesh" and "blood." Nothing prolonged, pious, or extraordinary. Someone gives thanks (or we all do, as the Spirit moves us)... then we eat and drink. No prayer, because we have learned that prayer is to be done in private. But thanks can always be shared and "public".
And that's pretty much it. We don't belong to a church; we are the church. We don't belong to a religion - that would be touching the unclean thing again, and once one receives holy spirit one is "washed clean" so that they become "undefiled," per se. To rejoin with such "women" would be committing [spiritual] adultery because we have no leader other than Christ. To that end, no one "takes the lead" among us. We are all one another's servant, truly, and so all "share."
And that's pretty much it. No Bible (for the most part)... and no books. No study. Just holy spirit. Truly.
I would say to YOU, though, that if YOU are wishing and thirting... if you really want to know the truth about these things... without having "anyone teach you"... and certainly without having to read the Bible (which reading will NOT give you truth!)... then I would exhort you: go directly to the source, Christ. Don't drink water downstream; rather, drink DIRECTLY AT THE SOURCE. You can do that by bringing yourself into union with him... which one does by partaking of him, the Tree of Life and Rock-Mass... and then LISTEN when he speaks. For he DOES speak and will speak to YOU... by means of HIS blood: holy spirit. I do not lie to you.
You can ask God to send you His holy spirit, though His Son... and then EXERCISE FAITH that He will do so. Do not put obstacles (i.e., doubt... and fear) in your own way. Do not concern yourself with what people might say... or think of you. They... and what they may think... or say... really don't matter... not if you really ARE wishing and thirsting.
I bid you peace, dear EOM... and ears to hear when the Spirit and Bride say to YOU:
"Come! Take 'life's water'... the [holy] spirit of God... which spirit is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, my Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... free!"
May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... who is the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit... be upon you... and your entire household... if you so wish it.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
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AwSnap
Wow, youve given me a lot. Thank you. Any other thoughts are welcome.
Matthew 25:34 (NIV Translation)
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(Revelation
7:9) After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands
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AGuest
The only way this makes sense is that both the 144,000 and the great multitude are before God's throne in the same location.
Which is what John WROTE, dear Kenneson (may you have peace!). Please compare (the colors might help):
After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation [we owe] to our God, whois seated on thethrone, and to the Lamb.” ... And in response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” ... And he said to me: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. That is why they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred serviceday and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them." Revelation 7:9-15
"And they sing a new song, saying: 'You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings UPON the earth.'" Revelation 5:9, 10
"Do YOU not know that YOU people are God’s temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU ?" 1 Corinthians 3:16
"YOU are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, and YOU have been built up upon the foundationof the apostles and prophets, while Christ [Jesus] himself is the foundation cornerstone. In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple for JAH. In union with him YOU , too, are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit." Ephesians 2:19-21
“I kept on beholding until there [was a] throne placed and the Ancient of Days sat down. His clothing was white just like snow, and the hair of his head was like clean wool. His throne was flames of fire; its wheels were a burning fire.There was a stream of fire flowing and going out from before him. There were a thousand thousands that kept ministering to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand that kept standing right before him. The [One who judges]sat down, and there were books that were opened." Daniel 7:9, 10
"And I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds." Revelation 20:11
"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan,and bound himfor a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.And I saw thrones,and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to lifeand ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.(The rest of the dead did not come to lifeuntil the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6
"Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:7-10
And I saw agreat white throneand the one seated on it. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha´des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. ... " Revelation 20:11,
"This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my fleshin behalf of the life of the world.” Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU , Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me." John 6:48-56I hope this helps, dear ones. If not, you can always go directly to the Source, who is the TRUTH... and Holy Spirit that will LEAD you... into ALL truth. Regarding these things and all others.
I bid you peace!
Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of Christ,
SA