Do you think JWS are a cult?

by Trixie 45 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SexyTeen

  Will Power: I didn't know that.

  freeman: the Bible only says blood. the organ transplants i'm not sure about. Being part of Mexico's army does not sound right. No JWs are part of the army.
• 

  AlanF

  : what rules does the Governing Body impose that are not in the Bible?

  Time would fail me if I tried to list them all. How about these for starters:

  "You must obey the faithful and discreet slave as ruler rather than God."

  "You must not follow your own Bible-trained conscience but that of the faithful slave."

  "You must profess to belief everything the faithful slave tells you."

  "You must not discuss your doubts in the faithful slave with anyone."

  "You must abstain from blood transfusions."

  "Married people must abstain from sexual activity that the faithful slave finds distasteful."

  Past winning teachings:

  "You must abstain from organ transplants."

  "You must abstain from vaccinations."

  "God lives on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades constellation."

  "Christ returned in 1874."

  "The Great Pyramid of Gizeh points to 1874 as the date of Christ's return."

  "Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be resurrected in 1925."

  AlanF
• 

  Will Power

  ST
  Of course you didn't know that. If the average witness realized that the "society" puts itself between men and Christ no one would dedicate themselves to a printing company!

  Then how would they support themselves?

  All the good intentions in the world do not excuse the fact that they are false christs, denying their followers the true gospel. The fact that they say Christ has already returned, goes against what the bible says, "every eye shall see". A thief in the night means when you least expect it, not that you slept thru it. Beware of wolves in sheep clothing that say "Look He is here, or there, do not follow them"
• 

  NameWithheld

  I'm sure we're overloading SextTeen!!!

  "freeman: the Bible only says blood. the organ transplants i'm not sure about. Being part of Mexico's army does not sound right. No JWs are part of the army."

  So the bible says "No blood". OK. So why can you take PARTS of the blood? Check your medical directive - it's complicated, but points out which blood factions a JW may take. Also, why do you eat meat? NO meat you buy in a supermarket is totally bled - you are eating SOME blood too. But it's OK to pick and choose I guess.

  As for the transplants, do a search on your WT CD - back in the late 60s they were banned as "Canninablism". Then in the late 70s/early 80s they were suddenly "a consciense matter". Nowadays most JWs do accept transplants. Not all JWs, but most, and you won't be punished by the elders for them. In fact, I bet you've never even given much thought to transplants being 'bad' have you? That's cause they're not teaching that anymore. It's a "Non-issue"
• 

  refiners fire

  ahh-hem (clears throat)
  the witnesses are ,strictly speaking, classified as a sect.
  My definition of a sect : A belief system that used to be a cult.
  The Witnesses, I would say, were a cult under Russell, possibly Rutherford, but are now a semi mainstream sect.
• 

  Lee Elder

  This is an interesting and controversial topic. Ray Franz rejects the idea that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. He points to similar levels of authoritarian control exercised by other groups. It’s true that Jehovah’s Witnesses are by no means alone when the “cult” topic comes up.

  I’m not sure the term is very useful anymore. It has taken on such a negative connotation and stirs up controversy. It kind of reminds me of the word “diet”. The term simply refers to what we eat but in recent decades its taken on the negative connotation of a dreaded, restrictive course of reduction.

  In a classic sense, the apostles and early Christians were cult members. They followed Christ and are commonly referred to as the “Christ cult” by higher critics of the Bible.

  We find similar levels of control exercised by non-religious groups like the military but there are some important differences. For instance, you are not born in to the military – you join or enlist for a set period and you can leave or be discharged with honor when the period expires.

  While cults have a sinister and frequently religious connotation. They can be harmless and center on politics, business, medicine, etc.

  Where does the WTS fit in? In my view, they meet most of the classic criteria for defining a cult – especially for members of the Bethel families. The criteria includes things like control of information, control of feelings and thoughts, control of behavior, control of association – forbidding discussion or reading literature of former members, etc.

  I think the most important aspect is whether a group becomes destructive. In the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses its fairly clear that there are destructive elements present if the form of their policies on blood, disfellowshiping, education, and one area that is frequently overlooked – finances. (The group has hundreds of thousands of members who are financially destitute because they have devoted the vast majority of their time and resources to the Society believing that the nearness of the end precludes any need to save for retirement).

  There is probably little to gain from arguing that the Watchtower Society is a cult. This expression conjures up images of Jim Jones and David Koresh. That is not the kind of “cult” that the Watchtower is. Nonetheless, the Watchtower is clearly a dangerous group that definitely employs well understood mind control and thought reform techniques.

  If a Jehovah’s Witness were under the influence of mind control, how would they know?

  Lee
• 

  AjaxMan

  They do have cultish tendencies so...

  "If it acts like one, behaves like one..."

  Well, you got the idea.

  Ajax
• 

  freeman

  Sexyteen,
  Thank you for the reply. Yes the Bible speaks about blood, not eating it, abstaining from it. But do Jehovah’s Witnesses really abstain from blood in the Biblical sense? Do you eat meat? If so is it Kosher meat. Only Kosher meat is blood free, did you know that?

  You said “ Being part of Mexico's army does not sound right. No JWs are part of the army”

  Well I’m sure if you asked the brothers in your Hall, they would assure you no JW’s are part of the army too. Likely they would be telling you what they believe to be the truth, but their ignorance does not change the fact that obtaining a cartila automatically places one in the Army reserve. Many Mexican witnesses have the cartila card, and all of them are part of the Army reserve as a result, that is a fact. Don't take my word for it, research it. They likely will never be called to duty, but so what they are part of the army nonetheless. And if it were just ignorance that would be fine, most of the brothers don’t know about such things, but the governing body does. If you really want to know what the governing body does and does not know about this and other things, I suggest you read a book written by a person that was a member of the governing body for many years. His name is Ray Franz, and the book is called Crisis of Conscience. Look for it in your local library it’s also available in many bookstores and of course AMAZON.com

  I know this gentleman personally; I had lunch with him at Bethel many years ago when he was part of the governing body. He was then and remains now a very soft-spoken Christian of the finest caliber. Unlike many you will find on this board, he is not bitter and seeks no vengeance, and this is very much reflected in his writing. He does however insist on complete honesty and that is what he presents in his book. And you don’t have to just take his word for anything he says. He presents tons of documentation to back up what he says, even internal Watch Tower memos and copies of publications.

  I must warn you, he is no longer a Witness as he was disfellowshiped in the eighties. What was his crime? He was seen having lunch with the man that is both his boss and his landlord. His boss was disassociated from the congregation at the time. That was his crime.

  If you read this book and anyone finds out, you could be disfellowshiped too just for reading it, remember this is forbidden knowledge. So you have to weigh the risks. I can’t promise what you will get out of reading this book other then one thing; you will learn the truth. That is all I can offer you and that is all Ray Franz will offer you too. What you do with this information is up to you. May God bless you as you seek first his Kingdom.

  Freeman
• 

  sadiejive

  Trixie:

  At one time I believed they were not a cult. But any organization that discourages it's followers to think independently or make their own assumptions of what the bible is saying...could be nothing less. It would be different if the followers were allowed to have a mind of their own...but they are not. This subtle brainwashing technique can be found in their own literature. And threats such as disfellowshipping and being shunned if someone questions their teachings can be used against anyone questioning their "rules". And it's not surprising, that most of it's members could care less that the WTS has done this...that should tell you something.

  "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." Galatians 5:1, NIV. Sadly, most who are in the society do not realize that they are indeed slaves to the WTS.

  Below are some examples in some recent Watchtower articles:

  Watchtower; 8-01-01, p. 14, par. 8:
  First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time" -- through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions -- we can be sure that we maintain "oneness" with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge. -- Matthew 24:45.

  Watchtower; 1-15-83; pg 22 para 21:
  21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization.

  Watchtower; 1-15-83; pg 27 para 19:
  19 As we study the Bible we learn that Jehovah has always guided his servants in an organized way. And just as in the first century there was only one true Christian organization, so today Jehovah is using only one organization. (Ephesians 4:4, 5; Matthew 24:45-47) Yet there are some who point out that the organization has had to make adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?

  Watchtower; 9-15-89; pg 23 para 13:
  13 In the world, there is a tendency to reject leadership. As one lecturer said: "The rising education level has improved the talent pool such that followers have become so critical that they are almost impossible to lead." But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God's organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us.

  
  SexyTeen:
  

  I am not sure but isn't a cult those that follow a man or a teacher, like the Branch Davidians? I believe that Jesus is the head of the congregation.

  This is the same EXACT explanation I received when I began studying with the JWs. Do you not realize that this response is drilled into your brain? BTW, most Christian congregations claim to have Jesus as it's head...doesn't necessarily mean that it is so.

  One question, what rules does the Governing Body impose that are not in the Bible?

  
  -Men can't grow beards.
  -Kids cannot attend pep rallys
  -The bedroom activities of married couples (ask mom and dad..just kidding)
  -IMHO, the celebration (or lack thereof) of holidays has no biblical backing*
  -YOU cannot read the bible and meditate on it's meaning without being told what it means...and if you do this and find that it means something different than what they've taught you it means then you are not entitled to voice that opinion without fear of reprimand

  I know these are just a few but more can't do's can be found here:
  http://www.jwfiles.com/jw-cant.htm

  Just don't do it on Mother's day or Father's day because on those days the scriptural basis goes out the window

  
  Why are these days not allowed? Info on Mother's Day..
  http://www.myholidayplace.com/motherhood/mothersday-history.html

  Also, what is up with Father's Day?? If you can find ANYTHING pagan about this holiday I will send you a dollar . http://www.holidayorigins.com/html/father_s_day.html

  I've noticed that most JWs cannot find anything really wrong with days such as Mother's Day, Father's Day, Thanksgiving, Grandparents Day...but do not celebrate them because they are told not to. They grasp for straws at finding something,anything wrong with these holidays so it won't seem as if they are just being controlled.

  SexyTeen, please, don't think that I am attacking you. I just want to help. The people here can tell you a lot of things of which you probably are not aware...such as the thing that WillPower told you. In reference to what he said there is a scripture somewhere (I can't think of where) that the NWT has an [] inserted to make it seem as though only the anointed can have communication with God. If someone knows which one I'm talking about, please post it.

  Here are several places you can visit to find a different perspective on the Jehovah's Witnesses:

  http://www.carm.org
  http://www.freeminds.org
  http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/index2.htm
  http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/dwjw.htm
  http://members.aol.com/beyondjw/bj.htm

  Please read all info for and against the organization before you are baptised into your religion. I'm sure you probably already know most of the "good" things. I pray that you will make an well-informed and objective decision. Oh, and there are several other links at the bottom of the page.

  sadie
• 

  AjaxMan

  Any group that doesn't allow you freedom of thought or independent thinking is not necessarily a cult, but a totalitarian system or a dictatorship for a lack of a better word.

  You don't have the freedom to read the bible by itself without any type of "aid".
  Men don't have the freedom to grow beards.
  Married couples are dictated on how their bedroom behavior must be.
  You cannot celebrate any holidays or there will be reprisals against you.
  You cannot donate blood even if it means it will save somebody's life.
  You cannot receive blood even if it means saving your own life.

  The list goes on.
  There is no freedom with that list.

  On the subject of serving the military and celebrating holidays, did you know that JWs did both of them before the 1930's?

  SexyTeen - If you do have the freedom that you might claim you have, can you verify the question above about serving the military and celebrating holidays?

  Peace

  Ajax