Does Man Have a 'Soul'?

by metatron 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    Thousands of years ago, a Greek philosopher named Plato
    developed the idea that humans had a part of them that
    survived death. In Watchtower-Land, (a fantasy realm)
    Witnesses are told about 'Platonic' philosophy - without
    ever examining why he thought the 'soul' survives the body
    or why his hunch might have been right!

    Plato looked around and saw that while humans, animals,
    and plants died and decayed, their FORMS appeared to be
    eternal. Babies kept being born with two eyes, two legs,
    and ten fingers, century after century. How was it possible
    that things died yet the forms kept reliably returning?
    He concluded that there must be a World of Forms - a hidden
    dimension or invisible world where all the specific forms
    were kept, like blueprints or templates, ready to make
    more people, cattle, or olive trees.

    As centuries passed, laws of heredity were discovered
    and it was supposed that eventually all the 'blueprint'
    information for each form would be found somewhere in the
    cells of living things. However, a few observers still
    expressed skepticism that all form and INSTINCTS were
    recorded in the cells. (Vedanta, Voice of Freedom 1902
    page 260,261). In 1949, the professor of zoology at Oxford
    Alister Hardy, wrote that "there is a general subconscious
    sharing of a form and behavior design, a sort of psychic
    blueprint between members of a species" and that "the
    mathematical plans of growth seem to have all the appearance
    of a pattern outside the physical world which has served
    as plan for selective action by way of changing combinations
    of genes." In 1980, an article appeared in Coevolution
    Quarterly called "Dogma & Iconoclasm in Biology: The Gene
    Is Not Enough" It offered the thought that some believed
    that since "the color of the eye is controlled by genes,
    the formation of the eye is also controlled by genes.
    But this is an extremely dangerous extrapolation."(pg.61
    No.26).

    This brings us up to recent years when after the human genome
    was decoded, the chief scientific officer at Celera Genomics
    made clear that the human genome is NOT a blueprint.
    "it's not true, we don't think blueprint is the right
    metaphor" (Science News Yahoo/ Reuters Feb. 11, 01).

    I subscribe to Science Frontiers which keeps me up to date
    with more and more of these anomalies suggesting that
    'something' is radically missing from our concept of how
    living things develop - How do you encode a map of terrain
    into genes that can guide a bird or insect succesfully
    in migration - even when it is raised away from its parents?

    If you wish to read more about this, try "The Spiritual
    Universe" by Fred Wolf (PH.D in physics) or "Synchronicity,
    Science, and SoulMaking" by Victor Mansfield (Professor
    of Physics and Astronomy at Colgate) or "Recovering the
    Soul" by Larry Dossey(M.D.).

    My 'obsession' with this subject is based on the one
    fact that researchers are running out of possible causes
    for forms. Eventually, you hit the quantum level, and that's
    it, all she wrote!

    If the search for forms runs into a dead end, think of the
    consequences for the world. Will reincarnation gain
    new respect? Will the world change spiritually?
    Will religions like the Watchtower evaporate in favor
    of more tolerant, universal creeds?

    Maybe so

    I'm waiting eagerly to see

    metatron

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Does man have a 'soul'?

    you have to ask?

  • metatron
    metatron

    Hmmm ... now where did I put my James Brown records?

    metatron("I got a good thang and I ain't gonna give it up..Oww!)

  • Celtic
    Celtic

    Yes Metatron, could I explain it here? No, you are communicating with my soul. One day I really really really want to meet with you to discuss this subject at massive length if that is what you would like?

    If you answer yes, I will make a point of conversing with you more fully.

    In the meantime feel welcome to mail me, you have the address.

    Peace, lots of it

    Celtic

    PS Here you are: [email protected]

  • David Gladden
    David Gladden
    Will the world change spiritually?
    Will religions like the Watchtower evaporate in favor
    of more tolerant, universal creeds?

    Yes, and it is already happening. This started in the 60's (Make love not war). The recent terrorist attacks have only served to accelerate this.

    I'm of the opinion that the world as a whole will continue to move in the direction of a more "Warm and Fuzzy, God loves you, you should love everyone" religious view.

    Militant groups are already being looked down on and fundamentalists are losing their popularity very quickly.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Metatron... may you have peace!

    May I respond? Thank you!

    My Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, most certainly believed that the physical flesh was NOT all there was to a man. In fact, the TRUTH taught in the Bible is that the flesh is merely a VESSEL... a 'clay' (earthen) pot, if you will, that CONTAINS the spirit. And when that 'vessel' decays, it returns to the earth. It contents, however, do not.

    Contrary to the erroneous teaching of the WTBTS, the contents of the 'vessel'... the SPIRIT... does not 'die', dear one. It indeed SLEEPS, but in order to do away with it, it must be destroyed.

    That is why my Lord said: "Do not fear him that can kill the BODY (the 'vessel' of earthen flesh), but rather be in fear of Him that can kill the body AND THE SPIRIT... in Gehenna."

    You see, the ONLY way to 'kill' the spirit is to destroy it. And the only thing that can destroy the spirit... is fire. That is why the 'angels that sinned' have not YET been destroyed... are not dead. Even abyssing doesn't destroy them (note: Satan was bound, but not destroyed, and eventually was loosed...). They won't be destroyed until 'fire comes down out of heaven' and destroys them, Magog... along with Gog... those humans who were designated as 'goats' and 'cut off' from entry to the city of New Jerusalem, wherein lies the Tree of Life, from which any one eating will live forever. That is why Adam had to be 'cut off' from it, as well.

    I hope this helps your understanding, at least to the point of seeing that the WTBTS is false in its teachings that when a man dies, his spirit also dies. When the writer said, "The soul that is sinning, it itself will die," he did NOT mean sins of the flesh. He meant that those who sin WILLINGLY... by means of sinning WITH the spirit, which is sin of the HEART and NOT of the flesh... that soul... will die. It will be 'cut off' from the Tree of Life, and ultimately destroyed, by means of fire.

    What is 'sin' of the spirit? It is when one sin AGAINST the Spirit of God... blasphemes... or when one sins otherwise and has no 'covering' by means of NOT eating from the Tree of Life, which 'tree'... 'root'... 'vine'... and 'sprout'... is the Son of the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, and His Christ, my Lord... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. For 'unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood, you have NO life in yourselves.'

    John 5:51, 53

    Therefore, I bid you... and all who have ears to hear what the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying:

    "COME! Take 'life's water'... FREE!"

    Again, I bid you peace, and I am...

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Celtic
    Celtic

    Oh my giddy aunt

  • uncle jimbo
    uncle jimbo

    hi metatron-

    Curious what your thoughts on Sheldrake's "morphic field" theory
    are. personally, I think it is a fallacy. There are lots of "dragons" on the genomic map -- unknown regions. We don't know if NO mechanism to transmit experiences of a parent to child exist.
    Maybe Lamarck's ideas should not totally be discredited. Even if the child animal is raised apart from it's parent's, it still has the parent's genetic material.

    Like the fallacy that humans only use 10% of our brains (used to
    support crap like ESP). If that is the case, which 90% of your brain
    would you care to part with? The fallicy DOES have a grain of truth
    -- only 10% of the brain is active at any ONE time. But, over a
    reasonable period of time 100% of the brain is active. In my opinion, Sheldrake's experiments are finding the grains of truth to support a fallacy.

    Maybe I'm closed minded on the subject. Thomas Huxley once said "It is the customary fate of new truths to begin as heresies."

    honestly, I hope I am.

    uncy

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    hi metatron,

    If I may I would like to offer another perspective. Leaving aside the early Christian writhers and using the bible alone I think that perhaps the strongest contradiction of the WTS doctrine is seen in Christ"s descent to Hades. In 1 Peter 3.19, the apsotle tells his audience how jesus "preached to the spirits in prison." If the dead were aware of nothing, then his preaching would have been futile. In the OT, the prophet Isaaih speaks of the condition of the dead, "Sheol underneath has become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in . . . all of them speak up and say. . . . Those seeing you will gaze even at you, saying . . . " (Is. 14:9-11). These verses indicate clearly that the dead are conscious, and the NT tells the same story. To be absent from the body is not to be unconscious, but rather it enables one to be home with the Lord, according to Paul (2 Cor. 5:8, Phil. 1:23). The body is just a tent, or tabernacle that does not last (2 Cor. 5:1-4; 2 Pet. 1:13), while man cannot kill the soul (Matt. 10:28). In fact, the souls live past the death of the bodies, since John "saw . . . the souls of those slaughtered . . . and they cried with a loud voice, saying . . . and they were told . . . " (Rev. 6:9_11). Because the soul does not die with the flesh, those in heaven are able to offer our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8), and live in happiness (Rev. 14:13).

    The Great and Powerful Oz:

    pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Met

    Right now many souls in the spirit realm are wondering if they were ever in a body.

    Just kidding. Those books you listed sound interesting. From a slightly different angle, monroe institute teaches people to do a type of astral exploration by modifying their brainwaves w sound. It's at http://www.monroeinstitute.org/

    SS

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