by Dogpatch 270 Replies latest jw friends
Seeing as that article brother Quack - how appropriate - enbush wrote absolutely failed to refute the accusation that the Society is a False Prophet, the very best it could hope to achieve is to basically say "Well if we are, they are too!".
Truly pathetic.
His nephew was so disgusted with the Q-bushes and the rest of the leaders he changed his last name.
Randy
The following material was posted in reply to my article WHO ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS TODAY? on Freeminds.org apparantly by another arrogant Witness who doesn't follow the GB's rules about STAYING OFF apostate websites!
The poster said, "The story reeks of fiction." My comment is,"As far as fiction goes, the statements used in defense of the WT organization by this poster are pure fantasy. His/her face-saving arguments are pure rationalization, not reasoning, but based on what the poster wants to be true, then selects the evidence to prove it's so. The evidence provided by the poster was taken out of the Society's literature which has been proven over and over again by investigators to be twisted half-truths, distortions of Bible texts, and worse. I was a very active JW for 43 years and lived through the 1975 era and know from first hand experience that false predictions were made regarding 1975. In addition, I lived at Bethel and worked one-on-one with WT leaders for many years. The burden of proof that my "story reeks of fiction" lies in the hands of the poster and this poster argues from ignorance!"
Barbara
Interestingly enough, these “prominent and credible elders” can't speak for themselves, nor can their names be revealed. The story reeks of fiction.
The faithful and discreet slave has sharpened its analysis of scriptural insight and literary output throughout the years.
The Watch Tower Society wasn't wrong about prophecy (how the outworking of events in the last days would unfold), they simply had some misconceptions about a time frame or an appointed time for a certain event. The only date that is at all noteworthy is 1925. For example, there were no miscalculations about 1914, simply the duration of the “time of trouble” that would follow the end of the “gentile times” leading up to Armageddon.
There was no official statement from the faithful and discreet slave about 1975. Their official statement was conversely the opposite of anything definite:
w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?
It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!
According to the Bible, a false prophet is revealed by his motives and actions not a flawless prediction of future events.
“Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men]. Matthew 7:15-20
Infallible future predictions outside of what can be calculated using Bible and historical chronology would call for a visionary. The faithful and discreet slave have never claimed supernatural powers.
it-2 p. 1160 Visionary
A man who had or claimed to have visions from God regarding concealed or future matters. The Hebrew word for “visionary” is cho?zeh′, from cha?zah′, meaning “behold; vision.” Cha?zah′ and its derivatives are employed with reference to seeing visions.—Nu 24:4; Isa 1:1; 21:2; 22:1; Eze 13:7; Da 8:1; see SEER.
Some visionaries were false and were opposed by God. (Isa 29:10; Mic 3:7) Others were sent by Jehovah and spoke in his name. (2Ki 17:13; 2Ch 33:1
If you do find an error early on, as Jehovah's Organization was progressing, this doesn't change what the Bible teaches or anything about the impending future. Finding an error you falsely claim is a “lie” doesn't mean specific Bible passages can be interpreted to mean something other than what is stated in crystal clear speech.
http://bible.cc/matthew/5-5.htm
http://bible.cc/psalms/37-29.htm
“Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it. Psalm 37:29
The faithful and discreet slave, the governing body included never claimed infallibility and they direct those seeking perfection to the right source.
uw chap. 15 pp. 120-121 par. 8 How Does Jehovah Direct His Organization?
At times, of course, questions about doctrine and procedure might arise. What then? The 15th chapter of Acts tells how an issue regarding requirements for Gentile converts was resolved. It was referred to the apostles and older men at Jerusalem, who served as a central governing body. Those older men were not infallible; they were not persons who never made a mistake.(Compare Galatians 2:11-14.) But God used them. They considered what the inspired Scriptures said on the subject at hand as well as the evidence of the operation of God’s spirit in opening up the Gentile field, and then they rendered a decision. God blessed that arrangement.(Acts 15:1-29; 16:4, 5) From that central body, individuals were also sent out to further the preaching of the good news in harmony with what the Lord himself had authorized.—Acts 8:14; Gal. 2:9.
it-2 p. 603 Perfection
The Bible’s Perfection. The Sacred Scriptures constitute a perfect message from God, refined, pure, and true.(Ps 12:6; 119:140, 160; Pr 30:5; Joh 17:17) Though thousands of years of copying have evidently brought some variations from the original writings, these variations are admittedly very minor, so that, even if our present copies and translations are not absolutely flawless, the divine message conveyed is.
The law of Jehovah is perfect, bringing back the soul. Psalm 19:7
If the faithful and discreet slave errs unintentionally in some trivial way, what should be done? Should they be gutted out and replaced? Was the error deliberate?
For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man. James 3:2
Did the error corrupt God's Word in anyway? If the answer is no, they can continue as a teacher of the nations in the matter of faith and truth with a clean conscience, regardless of what unreasonable opposers say about them.
This was given us in connection with Christ Jesus before times long lasting, but now it has been made clearly evident through the manifestation of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death but has shed light upon life and incorruption through the good news, for which I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher. 2 Timothy 1:9-11
For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth. 1 Timothy 2:7
Great article, thanks for posting.
And I enjoy watching WTS apologists twist and torture the meaning of "prophet" in an attempt to absolve their religious leaders of being false prophets.
"If you are a young person, you need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this system of things...Therefore, as a young person, will never fufill any career that this system offers." May 22 1969 Awake
They are liars as the above proves.
As to Jesus description of false prophets, the Watchtower grows bumper crops of hypocrisy by breaking up families all over the world, enforcing rules such as blood transfusion - which go 'beyond what is written' as matters of individual conscience and elevating themselves with a sense of unmerited superiority while doing almost nothing charitable.
As a practical matter, most people would be better served in their quest for moral uplift and getting free from drugs and loose living by various outreach groups in Christendom that have supportive and practical programs for such. Although the early Christian congregation had regular organized structures to help, Witnesses are too busy 'counting hours' in a largely imaginary 'ministry' to care.
It is simply disgusting to observe so many people cultishly driven to spend so many empty hours that could otherwise be spent in good, idealistic, Christian work. Instead, they 'cross the county' to count time, dump magazines in laundromats that end up in landfills, and teach their often "double-lived" kids that everyone else is going to die at Armageddon.
... and then they wonder, tearfully, what happened to drive their children away - and then shun them, rejected like the careless spawn of some lower animal.
false prophets, indeed
metatron
"If you are a young person, you need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this system of things"
I wasn't in the so called "Truth" back then, but i was a young girl when they wrote that, today i have aches and pains
to boot. Dag blame liars, I 'm gettin' old and in this system
Thanks folks for your posts where there's always so much food for thought.
Here's a perceptive comment that hit the nail on the head about 1975, which was just posted on Freeminds, in reply to the JW who thought my article "reeks of fiction."
Let's get real
written by katydid , August 10, 2010
Very interesting and insightful, as always. My parents knew Colin Quackenbush; I actually remember this article very well. As one who was around in 1975 (& before) I have to take issue with ryan 5973, as his comments are actually in error. The Society actually did predict 1975 as a valid date, although the reasoning was a bit circular, with comments such as "Since 1975 marks the end of mankind's 6000 years of existence, it is reasonable to conclude that the beginning of Christ's 1000-year reign would begin at that time." In 1976 Bro. Knorr gave a talk which many of us in Oregon heard by means of radio hookup; I was impressed that he actually apologized for misleading comments such as the one above. I don't believe any are saying the governing body makes these comments out of a wicked heart, with any kind of criminal intent. However, the fact is that they are made without regard for the full effect on those that read and take to heart all the words in the publications, while they themselves seem to take these predictions and instructions with a grain of salt. I have been in this organization for over 50 years, and had conversations with persons on all levels of responsibility. I understand one's reluctance to accept the "imperfections" that go so deep in the organization; most of us just want those responsible to step up, admit the defects, make right the wrongs they can correct, and show the love that Christ admonished his disciples to have for his sheep. We don't like the "spin," so noticeable in Quackenbush's article, and which continues on today whenever the policies are questioned.
Does the divinely stated principle of accountability for what one says and the effect it has, especially when uttered by one sought out as an authority, on its listeners (Matt12:36, 37; Matt: 23:15) have any currecny at all among JWs, much less the GB?
Okay, here's another good comment posted over at Freeminds, too good not to share:
written by Eric Allen , August 10, 2010
Thank you Barbara for another good article. I recently read an old article from the June 15, 1962 Watchtower Pg 380-383 'Avoid Unprofitable Questions'. The first sentence reads...'Have you noticed how frequently the apostle Paul alerted Christians to guard against speculation and unprofitable questions?'. In that article the society cites if not quotes nearly 12 different places in God's word where we are warned against speculating. The very last sentence on page 383 in part says...."'remember Paul's counsel: Learn the rule: 'Do not go beyond the things that are written'"-1Cor 4:6.
The 'society' needs to go back and re-read that article and follow its' own counsel. The society, in particular the GB definitely has a problem practicing what it preaches. Over the years the GB has indeed indulged way too much time in speculating about the 'generation'. Sorry 'ryan9573', they have been wrong, wrong, wrong. I've been a JW for nearly 45 years. Am in my mid 60's. Have served as an elder. By choice have stepped down cause I can not in good concience continue to serve the friends 'koolaid'. The society's stand on the blood issue is a joke. They are harsh and unkind and definitely not Christ like when dealing with friends who need help. I can go on and on and on. Keep up the good work Barbara, 'Blondie', Freeminds and every one else!
And the irony is, the JW's aren't even preaching the same "good news" that Jesus instructed and that the 1st C Christians preached.
Yes, they are proud of this fact. Their good news is DIFFERENT. They tell people that Jesus has ALREADY returned, as of 1914. We are now living in the "Last Days". Jehovah will soon kill everyone except Jehovah's Witnesses.
I see you still try and say they are false prophets when they simply do not qualify Biblically to be so. I think threads like this are good for readers to see because they highlight the prejudice on here.
