by Dogpatch 270 Replies latest jw friends
Designs, I'm not a Trinitarian and this isn't a Trinity topic. So please don't muddy the waters by switching the issue. Stay on topic.
The very best your line of reasoning can possibly hope to achieve is the extremely childish "Well if our Society is a False Prophet! Then so are they!" Fine, they're all false prophets together, the Society and all. I have no problem with that.
Stellar defense of the WTBTS, there.
ok...............
Hal Lindsey, Jack Van Impe, Jerry Falwell......all this guys are False Prophets also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429OIdIt3Lo
Think About It
Don't forget Chuck Smith from the lovely Calvary Chapel Cult................
Yeah, the Watchtower Society aren't the only False Prophets, the Bible said there would be many. But they are the probably the most well known.
consfearacy says: "God has two principle channels for communication: His inspired word and his holy spirit (active force)."
How can inspiration be separate from holy spirit? If you are directed by holy spirit you are going to be inspired !!!!!
Holy spirit causes inspiration and inspiration causes you to act, not sit still. Let me give you some back up on that,
as Bane would say: "Let me scripturize you." Luke 4:18 "God's spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news....."
Acts 1:8 " but you will recieve power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me...."
consfearacy ,there is no separating the two, none whats so ever. The holy spirit causes inspiration.
How in the heck can the GB say they are directed by holy spirit and yet they are not inspired
(2 Timothy 3:16-17) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving...so.. Dont question anything. Study everyting but dont question anything.
actually that isnt even true, as there is a few spots in the bible where the author , stops refering to the Lord , and says"ok, this, is from me"..paraphrasing.......so you cant even say ALL scripture is inspired, never mind that no original copy exists.....
Essan said, "Your arguments have been totally destroyed over several pages by several posters. You have completely ignored clear Scriptures and even the Society's own explicit comments on these matters. If I thought that your arguments were persuasive or appeared reasonable, I might have continued to address all of them at length, for the sake of any who may be following the discussion rather than for your sake, because you seem incapable of reason.
It's really very, very simple. But let's imagine that deliberate lying for selfish motive was the identifying mark of a False Prophet as you falsely claim - I and others have already proven that the Society is Lying NOW about what it preached in the past, such as regarding 1914. So, by the Bible's standards the Society is a False Prophet because of it's failed predictions and by your reasoning the Society is a False prophet because it is currently a deliberate liar. Either way...."
My arguments have been totally destroyed over several pages by several posters in the minds of bias opposers. It hasn't been my observation that the faithful and discreet slave has deliberately lied or covered up a mistaken viewpoint.
jv chap. 28 p. 632 Testing and Sifting From Within
In the lecture “Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” delivered by J. F. Rutherford on March 21, 1920, at the Hippodrome in New York City, attention was directed to the year 1925. On what basis was it thought to be significant? In a booklet published in that same year, 1920, it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from what was understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised Land (instead of starting after the last typical Jubilee before the Babylonian exile and then counting to the beginning of the Jubilee year at the end of the 50th cycle), this could point to the year 1925. On the basis of what was said there, many hoped that perhaps the remaining ones of the little flock would receive their heavenly reward by 1925. This year also was associated with expectations for resurrection of faithful pre-Christian servants of God with a view to their serving on earth as princely representatives of the heavenly Kingdom. If that really occurred, it would mean that mankind had entered an era in which death would cease to be master, and millions then living could have the hope of never dying off the earth. What a happy prospect! Though mistaken, they eagerly shared it with others.
w85 1/1 p. 7 Armageddon—What It Is Not
For more than a hundred years, the voice of Jehovah’s Witnesses has been heard proclaiming God’s future victory over the corrupt, unyielding rulers of this system. Especially since the year 1925 the Witnesses have had a clear view of what Armageddon is and they refuse to keep silent about it. Their desire is to help people to become Armageddon survivors, not casualties. So they urge all who listen to follow the advice of Joel 2:31, 32, which speaks of “the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah,” and adds: “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe.”
If you open your mind to all aspects of reality, one thing that is certain, is in spite of a prior mistaken viewpoint: Jehovah’s Witnesses do consistently teach the truth about what is contained in God's Word. What they teach is also harmoniously consistent with common observational reality circa 2010. It wasn't until 1993, that the Catholic Church "officially" pardoned Galileo for their geocentric view of the Earth and forgave the astronomer for teaching that the planets revolve around the sun, not the earth. It should be obvious that the noble pursuit of truth is not the goal of the world's largest Christian denomination.
Personally, I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I had three or four friends that became lovers of pleasures and other things in the world that are diametrically opposed to the love of God. If they were to later accuse Jehovah's Witnesses of being false prophets, I'd know what is really motivating them.
Furthermore, [it is] you [God made alive] though you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience. Yes, among them we all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed by the flesh and the thoughts, and we were naturally children of wrath even as the rest. Ephesians 2:1-3
To keep things honest: If you're going to condemn a religious organization, you should also direct others to people of godly devotion not proving false to its power. Otherwise, you are simply stirring up needless confusion.
But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 2 Timothy 3:1-7
Consfearasy said: The reason I have a problem labeling Charles Taze Russel a false prophet is because while he and the early Bible students did say some things I disagree with, the "Millennial Dawners" as they refered to themselves back then, also said things I do agree with. They made some statements about medical science and the use of vaccines that were quite inaccurate.
No, the reason you have a problem labeling Charles Russell as a false prophet is because you start with the assumption that he was being used by Jehovah to 'resurrect true Christianity', even though there is absolutely nothing scripturally or historically that suggests this was the case. When you begin your supposition with a pre-conceived idea like you have, then you will try and argue every single false prediction he made because you can't stand the thought that he was in fact, a false prophet.
The aspect of the legal organization in use by Jehovah's Witnesses that refers to itself as the "faithful and discreet slave" has sharpened its analysis of fundamental sciences and literary output throughout the years.
More bullshit. What these men have done is made countless wacky predictions that never happened and when the dates passed without anything happening, they either claim it really happened 'invisibly' (1914), or some other pathetic excuse.
The Bible documents the mistakes of certain men and the good they accomplished. A noteworthy example is David. Psalms was written by David and others. Of the 150 psalms, the superscriptions attribute 73 to David. They weren't omitted from the Bible because of the adulterous affair with the wife of Uriah and the murder to cover it up. Generalizations like adulterer and murderer can be ascribed to David, but that doesn't mean the songs composed by David in the Book of Psalms weren't inspired of God.
Yet another ridiculous attempt by you to try and justify the WTS's failed date-setting. David's adulterous affair has absolutely zilch to do with the Organization's screw ups, so quit trying to deflect the issue at hand. The age-old argument that JW's use is that Jehovah used inperfect men to write the bible, so we can't expect our leaders to be perfect. Difference is: There is no record of either the Israelites or first century Christians being disfellowshipped for refusing to believe a false prophecy. Yet this happens on a regular basis today in the Organization. You're not allowed to question the Governing Body no matter how stupid or ridiculous some of their doctrines are, or you'll be disfellowshipped.
You can choose to label Charles Taze Russel a false prophet because of a misunderstanding, but what's that have to with anyone who follows his work?
Matthew 15:14 "...Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit." Capish?
If an error is isolated, especially early on, as Jehovah's Organization was progressing, if they do continue to clarify what the Bible teaches and any prior misconceptions, their principle method of teaching will not consist of men's opinions. Provided a person believes the Bible is God's inspired word.
First of all, their errors have not been "isolated". They've been numerous and they hold the record for falsely predicting End-of-the-World dates. There is (once again), nothing the bible that excuses false prophecies as you attempt to try and downplay their embarassing tract record. And for the record, try reading again what Deuteronomy 18:20-22 states is the telltale signs of a false prophet:
"...However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him."
There is nothing in there that hints about "misunderstandings" or being "sincere in their beliefs" as excusing them for what they did. Which part of that don't you understand?
After the mistaken speculation about 1925 was clarified, Jehovah's Witnesses maintained the position of what is stated in Matthew 24:36.
LOL! What planet are YOU from? After the 1925 fiasco, Rutherfraud still claimed in the early 1940s that Armageddon was imminent:
"It would therefore appear that there is no reasonable or Scriptural injunction to bring children into the world immediately before Armageddon, where we now are."---The Watchtower, November 1, 1938, p. 324
"...Universal war is absolutely certain to come and that soon, and no power can stop it.... During the few remaining months until the breaking of that universal cataclysm the powers that rule the nations of the earth will continue to make treaties..."----Universal War Near, 1934 pp. 26, 27
Then in the 1960s, Freddie Franz was responsible for the 1975 fiasco. Since you claim to be born in the 1970s, you obviously were either too young to remember it, or you were born after the event. However, many people on here remember it and there is no doubt that they were expecting it and had promoted it. 1984 and then 1994 was the end of the "70 or 80 years" they allowed for a generation and they've reinvented what the tern "generation" means at least 8 times.
There's push and shove amongst Christendom's Churches about what religion is true and false.
More mindless rubbish. What about all the derogatory statements the WTS has made about other religions over the last century? They, and you, point your finger at all other religions, never failing to point out their failings while either ignoring your own, or going to extreme lengths to try and minimize them.
From my observation, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is the only religion that makes logical sense and that synchronizes with the Bible in its entirety.
Then your observation skills suck dead rocks. Because the WTS is a false religion and their history is filled with false dates made by false prophets. If you're too blind that you don't see that, then that's your problem.
2 Timothy 3:7 " always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth."
You nailed it consfearacy, that describes the WTS to a Tee!!!
Have a drink on me.
