Why so defensive? (CHRISTIANS ONLY)

by besty 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • yknot
    yknot

    Oh Besty.......

    Texans sometimes get to feeling 'sensitive' while out in California.....

    Try to understand that most of us were told repeatedly that California was a 'heathen' state and only a matter of time until it would sink into the ocean......

    Please note what is considered 'hell' on the tshirt.....

    The above shirt has been a 'best seller' for at least 20 years....(well that is when I bought my first)

    Don't take her response personal she was just feeling emotional at that moment, chalk it up to a bad hair day!

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    BTW, if you have true faith and a true belief in God, as a Christian, you don't fear death. You fear it in the sense that it is the unknown but getting to heaven is the whole point of the journey and you gotta die to get there.

    I was very, very sick a few years ago with a massive infection and really did think I was going to die. Obviously, I recovered. I was so disappointed that I didn't die because I was so excited about the chance to see Jesus face to face after death, a reality I had been deprived of as a JW. Once you learn the Christian story, then you really realize how much you missed being raised Hovie.

  • I quit!
    I quit!

    I don't agree with her positions but she is living proof you don't have to be a moron to hold those postions. Maybe she has been treated like she was stupid in the past for holding her beliefs and felt like that was where you were heading and went on the defensive.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Besty, why don't you what a couple of days (or whatever) for emotions to cool off, and then ask her?

    Anything said by anybody else is pure speculation.

  • garyneal
    garyneal
    Anything said by anybody else is pure speculation.

    Agreed, it is indeed impossible for anyone else to know what was really going on in her mind.

  • sweet pea
    sweet pea

    oops

  • besty
    besty

    completely agree garyn and jeff - we are speculating on this here discussion board :-)

    I will admit to being a bit 'frontal' with my line of questions - I thought she could handle it.

    I think the problem is when a Christian meets an atheist there is so little common ground about concepts like invi'ble magick men in the sky that I can imagine it could quickly put one on the defensive.

    I mean it really is quite eyebrow raising when you analyze the claims logically with an unimpressed atheist, and thats maybe where she fell out of her comfort zone.

    A bit like asking a JW to run by you why exactly they are looking forward to the death of 7 billion men women and children. To me the Christianity concept is equally incredulous and I probably had it written all over my face :-)

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I have a whole different take than most here, dear Besty (peace to you!), and would like to weigh in, not as a "christian" but just as a person, if you will permit me. Thank you!

    First, I think such sensitivies run both ways, indeed every direction... when provocative subjects are broached, especially in the manner here. For example, people who don't believe in God, religion, or "christianity" also tend to get quite "sensitive" when religion is, well, pushed, during what appears to be a purely secular gathering. I have especially known some non-religious people to freak out when Watchtower perspectives were brought by JWs to people who weren't really into religion (though, I now totally understand it - LOLOL!). Usually, though, people like to have some idea that religion is going to come up at some point during the day/evening so that they are somewhat prepared (if they agree to show up for the event).

    Here, you not only started out the conversation with a question that had NO choice but to lead into religion (it is usually the default for evolutio)... but was INTENDED to provoke (i.e., "... if Texas had their school board 'under control' yet..."). If you stop and think about it, what kind of question was that really? Here is a woman you apparently don't know very well, yet your question assumes that she, indeed everyone, either agrees with you... or if they don't, they should... that the school board is indeed "out of control." Out of control why? Because the head of the Board is involved in some sex scandal? Because funds have been misappropriated? Embezzled? Because of layoffs and/or not enough teachers? Nope. Because it's trying to remove evolution from the science books.

    [Now, before YOU take offense, please know that I believe science is CRITICAL to understanding the world we live in right now. It is physical and understanding the physical universe is imperative to continuing our present existence in it. I do not agree, however, that understanding the physical world is critical, even necessary, to understanding the spirit realm. But that's another thread. Either way, I am not sure I would appreciate having a discussion about it in "mixed" company. It would depend... and I would certainly feel more comfortable if I knew everyone present, as well as their views. I digress.]

    So, what did you do wrong? Your question intimated that there was not only something wrong with the board, but with anyone who didn't agree with you. The TRUTH... is that you ambushed this lady. AND... if how you tell it is accurate, it kind of appears as if you totally intended to! Here she is, all ready to enjoy a fairly quiet meal with friends (well, as much as you can with very young kids)... and you basically set her up. Dear one, not everyone wants to discuss politics... or religion... at all... let alone at a secular dinner. And NO ONE wants to be ambushed into such subjects. Regarding ANY subject, actually. You, however, tried to evoke an unsolicited conversation about both... politics AND religion... under the guise of asking an "innocent" question about the school board. The school board, however, was not the issue: her views on the subject of evolution... and, by default, religion... was... along with the "politics" of the school board's attempts.

    It was tantamount to you going to dinner with some friends, and having a JW there who asks whether Puerto Rico had its government under control yet and when you ask what they mean, they say "Well, they're violating people right to freedom of religion and free speech. For example, they don't want to let Jehovah's Witnesses do street work there." And you say (hallelujah! in your heart!)... "That's a good thing," and they say, "What, don't you believe in freedom of religion and the right to free speech?" You see where I'm going with this: you really hadn't planned on a discussion of the evils of JW witnessing, and besides, you realize it isn't gonna matter what you say, anyway. So, you tend to avoid these types of conversations. So, you give a cursory answer and TRY to change the subject. But... that tenacious little JW just won't let you.

    My point is that while there was nothing wrong with you believing that the school board was "out of control" for what it was trying to do, shoving it (and that IS what you did) in the face of a virtual stranger who had absolutely NO idea that it was coming was... rude... arrogant... presumptuous... and, really, in the poorest of taste. It was not appropriate for your dinner audience... without first discerning whether she wanted to discuss such topics.

    In short, it was VERY Californian. And I can say that because I am a Californian (since 1964)... and see it all the time. And it STILL amazes me. "We" tout ourselves as some of the most "enlightened" folks in the country, indeed the world, and yet, we are sometimes foremost among those lacking in even the most basic of manners. We don't believe in etiquette... or sometimes even minimal decorum. As a SIL indignantly said to me recently, when I shushed her for getting in the business of and asking a very personal question about my DIL, "I have a right to say what I feel, don't I?"

    The answer to that is, no, not always. You do not have a right to always say what you feel... or ask what you want to... to and/or of whom you want to. Sometimes, it's none of one's business... and other times it's just out of line. Unfortunately, dear one, you were out of line here.

    Now, I realize that there are going to be ones here who howl and cry because they believe in that "right" to say what one wants to whomever one wants about whatever one wants whenever one wants... but... they're wrong. That one can DO it... does not make it right... or a right.

    I bid you peace, truly, and absolutely NO offense was intended.

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    Hey, Besty, if you're planning a vacation soon, here's a place you might want to check out:

    http://creationmuseum.org/

    The state-of-the-art 70,000 square foot museum brings the pages of the Bible to life, casting its characters and animals in dynamic form and placing them in familiar settings. Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden. Children play and dinosaurs roam near Eden’s Rivers. The serpent coils cunningly in the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Majestic murals, great masterpieces brimming with pulsating colors and details, provide a backdrop for many of the settings.

    he he he he he, I am so bad!

  • Merkaba
    Merkaba

    Besty, I like what you said about preferring to get your information from books rather than movies because of bias and what not. However, being a college student, I see things being put into college science texts that are not true, yet are being pushed forward as truths due to some political agenda. I'm referring to my environmental science text (400 level science class) in the very first chapter nonchalantly talking about global warming as if it is completely true while many PHd educated climatologists are in disagreement. It's funny too because it is in the same chapter that gives some background information on the scientific method and it's tenets. So, while I definitely agree that movies and documentaries are completely biased, it also seems now that college text books are being infiltrated with political trash and falsehoods.

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