Resurrection of Lazarus only mentioned by John, not others, why?

by VM44 85 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry
    Terry

    I do have a question for you about something with a little more importance. When John the Elder encourages his readers to "not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God", does this apply to collection of books we know as the Bible? And I agree with PSacramento that it is important for Christians to understand that the Word of God is not the Bible, it is Jesus. If one "believes in the Bible" surely they should believe the testimony it gives concerning him?

    This is an insurmountable conceit!

    Self-reference leads to Paradox!

    What you THINK you KNOW about Jesus you CAN'T know if the Word of God is not the Bible!

    You have no other source except Mystical hallucination.

    In other words you are stuck between fallible paradoxical "bible" and delusional imagination from your own mind!

    To profess faith in this can only be deliberate self-hoax writ large and inflated into a rubbery "virtue" called FAITH!

  • Terry
    Terry

    Further while I'm certain that "disciple Jesus' loved" was Lazarus I do not know if he was even the author of the fourth gospel.

    How are we defining the word "certain" these days???

    Can certainty be stretched to include what we want something to be even if it is without corroboration, validation and falsification?

  • Terry
    Terry

    Another early writer that Irenaeus favors is Papias. Eusebius also draws from Papias comments on the authorship of Matthew and Mark. Papias states that he was interested in knowing first-hand what Jesus and the apostles had said and so he saw it was important to get in contact with those that had heard them.

    And this self-same Papia was also a Heretic! Which is it, then? Apparently the Early Church fathers cherry picked according to personal whim what was "true" and what was blasphemous!

    We have them to thank for our bible canon along with neo-platonic tinged doctrines like hell, immortal souls and trinities.

    Are these reliable sources of Faith for Post-Enlightenment citizens of Planet Earth in 2010??

  • ItIsWritten
    ItIsWritten

    Anthony, You wrote: I agree with PSacramento that it is important for Christians to understand that the Word of God is not the Bible, it is Jesus. If one "believes in the Bible" surely they should believe the testimony it gives concerning him?

    Surely one should believe the testimony that the Bible gives concerning Jesus. That goes without saying.

    But surely we must also be informed in our use of biblical terms by the manner in which we see the God-inspired writers of scripture using those terms. One cannot have biblical warrant for ascribing rules for the use of biblical terms which are at odds with the way those very terms are used in scripture.

    And, it is easy to show that the most frequent New Testament use of the term "word of God" in NOT in the first instance a reference to the person of Jesus (as the following quotes prove). So to suggest that the term must always refer only to the person of Jesus is just false.

    Mar 7:13 (Jesus himself speaking) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition

    Luk 3:2 the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias

    Luk 4:4 (Jesus himself speaking) man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God

    Luk 5:1 as the people pressed upon him (Jesus) to hear the word of God

    Luk 8:11 (Jesus himself speaking) the parable is this: The seed is the word of God

    Luk 8:21 (Jesus himself speaking) My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it

    Luk 11:28 (Jesus himself speaking) blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it

    Jhn 10:35 (Jesus himself speaking) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came

    Act 4:31 and they spake the word of God with boldness

    Act 6:2 It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables

    Act 6:7 And the word of God increased

    Act 8:14 the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God

    Act 11:1 heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God

    Act 12:24 the word of God grew and multiplied

    Act 13:5 they preached the word of God in the synagogues

    Act 13:7 desired to hear the word of God

    Act 13:44 came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God

    Act 13:46 It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you

    Act 17:13 the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea

    Act 18:11 teaching the word of God among them

    Act 19:20 mightily grew the word of God and prevailed

    Rom 10:17 faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God

    1Cr 14:36 came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

    2Cr 2:17 we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ

    2Cr 4:2 have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully

    Eph 6:17 the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

    Col 1:25 to fulfil the word of God

    1Th 2:13 ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God

    1Ti 4:5 sanctified by the word of God and prayer

    Hbr 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword

    Hbr 13:7 have spoken unto you the word of God

    Rev 1:2 bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ

    Rev 1:9 for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ

    Rev 20:4 for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God

    ---

    Of course, it is true that this term was also sometimes directly applied to Jesus, as in: "he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God" (Rev. 19:13, et al.). Moreover, there is also a direct link between the written/spoken word of God and Jesus because it that word spoke of him: "in the volume of the book it is written of me" (Hb. 10:7, et al.)

    In any case, while people may want to impose their preferred structure on the use of this or other terms in scripture, using biblical terms in the manner that those terms were used by the God inspired writers of scripture would seem to be the best practice.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Everytime Jesus spoke of the 'word of God" he was referring to himself and his teachings, when others referred to it, it was also by the power of jesus and the HS, it wasn't in refference to things not yet written.

    The bible is not and never has been the WORD of God, but the word of men inspired by God, there is a big difference that needs to be understood.

    We need to remember that the NT didn't exist when those passages were spoken and that, while it si great that we have them to read and helps us to understand God and Jesus and the HS, we need to remember that we must also "test everything".

    Terry,

    Yes I realize the many variations of stories told and I realize that the "differences" are very miniscule when all is said and done, and that stylistic differences will basically change the surface of things but not the core, it was NEVER the case of "broken telephone".

    Shelby, I am gonna PM you :)

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    Because it's fiction folks.

  • donuthole
    donuthole

    @Terry

    You asked:

    Are these reliable sources of Faith for Post-Enlightenment citizens of Planet Earth in 2010??

    No, no more than they were "reliable sources" at any time in history. The wise man thus puts his faith in Jesus who is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

    @ItIsWritten

    I was happy that PSacramento already responded and I'm basically of the same mind. I have reviewed those Bible passages you shared and can honestly say that none are in reference to the Bible. To do so is to divert attention away from the one we should be looking toward, hearing and listening to, namely Jesus. To preach the Word of God is to preach Christ.

  • Terry
    Terry
    Are these reliable sources of Faith for Post-Enlightenment citizens of Planet Earth in 2010??

    No, no more than they were "reliable sources" at any time in history. The wise man thus puts his faith in Jesus who is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

    You can't have one...you can't have none...you can't have one without the other. (As the song says.)

    Where do YOU get your Jesus if NOT from the scriptures? Postcard? Shimmering night visions? Frontal lobe whispers?

    The JESUS of today is brand. It (he) takes many variations of marketing as a persona.

    To say Jesus is the SAME yesterday, today and forever prompts me to ask: Same as what?

    You need a source with which to COMPARE today with yesterday.

    There are NO original, uncorrupt sources for an original JESUS as history.

    So, how do you make the leap to saying YOUR version of JESUS is the same?

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    The JESUS of today is brand. It (he) takes many variations of marketing as a persona.

    "Jesus," yes, dear Terry (peace to you!). The Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Holy Spirit and Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, is not. Indeed, he isn't even known by those who so brand(ed) him. Which is why it is so hard to "reconcile" him as you and others try to do... by the Bible. This One is ALIVE... a LIVING spirit... and not contained in some mere book, compilation of writings, or religion.

    And that is the problem: folks (perhaps like you, but certainly the WTBTS and other "christian" religions) keep LOOKING for him... in ALL the wrong "places"... and with the wrong "tools." To their detriment and continued blindness.

    Again, I bid you peace... and ears to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU (and they will, if they have not already):

    "Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, which spirit is poured out from the innermost parts of such Holy One... and in doing so GIVES SIGHT TO THE BLIND... free!"

    YOUR servant, and a slave of that One, Christ,

    SA

  • Terry
    Terry

    Our belovedly peaceful Shelby opined: "Jesus," yes, dear Terry (peace to you!). The Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Holy Spirit and Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies......."

    Is it okay to pray to the Holy Spirit? Or, just to the Father?

    Jesus prayed to Father. Did he pray to Holy Spirit?

    These Greek modalities confuse me!

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