by Ding 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Leolaia,
Interesting. "Life, with its distinctive personality traits" strikes me as quite different from an "impersonal life force". It would be hard to argue that an *impersonal* life force included anything related to personality...
Equivocal, indeed.
Hello all. I am a new poster on here (although I have been lurking for a long time). I have never been one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, however, have spent a lot of time over the past few years with JWs, and have a deep empathy for struggles that they go through in this cult. I am currently attending Seminary, and love theology! I thought I would weigh in on the issue of Michael/Jesus (as the “bible study” I did a few years back taught me about this subject).
There is no biblical evidence to infer that Jesus is or was an angel. There are two passages that I go to when engaging with my Witness friends to prove this.
The first, and strongest, argument against Jesus being connected (ontologically) to the angels is in the first chapter of Hebrews (actually, it’s the entire first chapter). The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish-Christians who had fallen away from the standard teachings of grace/faith, and had begun introducing many former Jewish practices into their belief system. The entire book is a rebuttal to these erroneous practices (especially in the area of Christ as the high priest, versus needed an earthly priest, as that local congregation had not grasped the value of Christ as priest).
Regarding chapter 1: being that there were many instances in Jewish history where an angel had been involved in helping the Hebrews (or by giving supernatural help), Jews had often elevated angels to a superior level of exaltation. However, the purpose of the angel was to be God’s ministering spirit (Heb. 1:14). The author of Hebrews is making the point that Jesus was not an angel, and is in fact, far superior to the angels.
Hebrews 1 (ESV)
1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”?
Or again,
“I will be to him a father,
and he shall be to me a son”?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
7 Of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
and his ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
10 And,
“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
11 they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
12 like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.”
13 And to which of the angels has he ever said,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?
The author of Hebrews is almost stating his case to the point of redundancy, that Jesus is in NO WAY an angel.
The second scripture I would go to is in the book of Daniel. The Watchtower in chapter 12, teaches:
“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people.” The response is usually: “You see, Michael is the great prince! He is Jesus.”
However, if we look at Daniel 10:13 (in context), we know that the author already established who Michael is:
“…but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia…”
If Jesus is Michael, and Michael is only “one of the chief princes,” then Jesus has others who he shares the title of “chief prince” with. Obviously, this teaching is not consistent with Watchtower theology (and is complete heresy to Orthodox Christianity).
There is a little more to this, but I think this is a strong and basic argument against this false teaching.
witness2witness,
Welcome. Excellent points. I've often pointed out that Heb 1:5 and 1:13 alone prove conclusively that Jesus cannot be an angel:
For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
And to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
If God never said these things to any angel, yet he did say them to Jesus, then logically Jesus cannot be an angel.
Most JWs (certainly, those participating in a forum such as this) will simply cover their ears (eyes) in the face of this evidence because, sadly, they don't care about truth. JWs have been conditioned to believe that the only thing that matters is absolute blind obedience to the leaders of the JW religion.
To a JW, the bible is not truth; the Watchtower Society is truth.
peacedog,
Thanks for the welcome!
Like I said, I have spent a few years doing studies with local JWs (one was the C.O.). The normal response for something like this would be..."well, thats not the way we interpret it."
I found this to be a lame cop-out, but like you said, JWs can only see scripture through the shades of "God's only true channel of worship."
witness2witness, Thanks. Great point about Hebrews 1. Daniel 10:13 has always bothered me once I looked up all the related scriptures to try to prove to myself that the WT teaching regarding Jesus = Michael was true.
Daniel should be one to avoide for Jw's since Daniel states quite plainly that Michael is ONE of the "chief princes" ( so much for their "one ArchAngel doctrine).
Jude is quoting from the OT Book "Assumption of Moses" ( or is it accension?? Leo would know 100% for sure), a book the WT does NOT view as part of their "Bible Canon".
As for Thessilonians, that verse has been discussed ad nuseum and for Jesus to be the archangel, he would also have to be the trumpet.
Fact is, nowhere in the bible will you find it stated that Jesus is anything other than:
God, The Word, Son of Man, Son of God, Messiah, Christ, Lamb, the bread of life, the rock that followed the Hebrews, Judge, saviour, redeemer, teacher, lord of the sabbath,the exact form of God, and Lord.
You will find the first chapter of Hebrews, as shown above, stating that Jesus is NOT an angel and far higher than ANY angel.
Yeah Jude (v. 9) relates the story from the Assumption of Moses, wherein Michael appears in his usual psychopomp role (cf. the Ascension of Isaiah where Michael accompanies Jesus at the tomb during the resurrection). But more to the point, Jude also explicitly quotes and draws on 1 Enoch (especially in v. 6, 12-13, 14-15, 16), and in that book Michael clearly belongs to a group of seven archangels.
Hi leoliaia, Thank you for the references. I was looking at the translation here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/index.htm but cannot figure out how to cross match the numbering system with the verses you mentioned. Any suggestions? Thank you.
Oh, I was giving verses from Jude that clearly draw on 1 Enoch.
Here is one place where the archangels are listed:
Thanks Leoliaia. I'll have a read through the book of 1 Enoch.
