A You a Ward of the Watch Tower? (page 3)

brotherdan

I see your point, and hopefully I'll get to the point where I can do that. When I made the dedication towards the organization I was 13. How can that be legally binding anyway? Plus, I was under the impression that I was making a dedication to God and not the WTS.

cantleave

Cameo'd have you ever been a witness?

cameo-d

cantleave: "Cameo'd have you ever been a witness?"

Are we revisiting the premise that I have nothing valid to say because I am not "one of you"?

Am I once again the intended victim of religious discrimination on this board?

Do ex-jws still have that craving that draws the JWs-----that need to be extra special and exclusive?

That ordinary people can never "qualify" to be a part of that "extra specialness" because they lack the gullability and vanity so inherent in the JW personality?

cantleave

No, that was not my point. I hold no discriminatory feelings to you because you haven't been a witness, just a tinge of jealously because you probably had the normal childhood that I never expoerienced.

My point is that giving any letter of disassociation results in a hell of a lot more that just resigning from a religion. It results in a loss of family and the ability to have a positive influence on other menbers of the group that you care for.

To simply walk away and fade does not tie you to WTS at all. As long as you are mentally out it and do not allow them to control your behaviour, you are free. If you can do that and maintain a relatively normal relationship with those you love, like wobble and I have done is the ultimate exit.

I genuinely believe that unless you have been in that position you cannot understand and that appears to be underpinned by the premise of your post.

cameo-d

Cantleave.....I do understand that. Very well. I am mulling some ideas over as to how to accomplish this without that sort of backlash if possible. Maybe I will return in a few days with some ideas.

Part of my concern here is that even those who have sent a DA have never received acknowledgement from the WT that they have been emancipated. Their letters have not been acknowledged. A legal notice, even if not acknowledged by them, can also be filed at the courthouse, or published in a newspaper. Then, you ARE legally free. I believe all of you are CONTRACTED to a CORPORATION. I once saw where the WT corporation was licensed through a state insurance commissioner. The sooner there is legal action, then others on up the line will also have to answer for their actions in this deception.

cantleave

Cameo'd I missed your point - sorry!!

I agree with some of what you saying.

The issue would be, which one of the corporations are you CONTRACTED to. The terminology used in the baptismal question is "God's spirit directed organisation" which legally means nothing at all, as none of the legal corporation is called "God's Spirit Directed Organisation"..

You will never get any formal recognition of a letter of DA, Ray Franz didn't even get copies of the tapes he was PROMISED, so it is no surprise that no acknowledgment of a DA letter will be given.

The way I see it there is no point playing their game. At the end of the day noone else cares because all most people will see it as if that you are resigning from or being expelled from a club.

cameo-d

Cantleave: "The issue would be, which one of the corporations are you CONTRACTED to. The terminology used in the baptismal question is "God's spirit directed organisation" which legally means nothing at all, as none of the legal corporation is called "God's Spirit Directed Organisation".."

It is not necessary to articulate that detail. The wording in your notice could "include all of it's affiliates" and that should cover the whole gamut of sleazy covers.

Cantleave:"You will never get any formal recognition of a letter of DA, Ray Franz didn't even get copies of the tapes he was PROMISED, so it is no surprise that no acknowledgment of a DA letter will be given."

You don't need any response or recognition from them. You are not raising your hand and asking for their permission to leave. You are taking back your power. In essence, you have granted them your power of attorney to control all matters in your life. By your contract, you have asked them to direct and style your life for you because you are not capable. That's what it amounts to. By contracting with them you have agreed that they know what is best for you.

You are not asking anything from them. You do not need a response or acknowledgement. You will have a receipt from mailing a registered or certified letter and you will have a copy of the legal notice recorded with your county clerks office. Or run it in newspaper for specified period of time. That is your proof that you have severed your ties and taken your power of attorney from them.

Every church/religion has Officers that are given Power of Attorney over the congregation. Until you DA by legal severance, you are probably just considered as "inactive" which places you in a lukewarm position.

Cantleave: The way I see it there is no point playing their game. At the end of the day noone else cares because all most people will see it as if that you are resigning from or being expelled from a club.

Then again when I see some of the stuff on this board, it's no wonder many of these people give their common sense away and ask the WT to think for them. Grown adults still asking questions like: Can I have sex? When can I have sex? How long should it last? Which positions are permissible for me? What should I eat for lunch? What am I allowed to have?

Many of these people, though grown adults, still do not know how to think for themselves or reason. I bet some JWs call the elders three times a week for stupid questions and asking permission.

I have come to the conclusion that the organization is actually a necessary evil in society...just because there are people who need guidance on what kind of TP to buy and what should they do with their life because they don't have a clue why they are here.

Anyone who doesn't fit into the mold of needing someone to arrange and direct their life, then get out. Anyone who is still raising their hand and asking permission and is over 30 then they are most probably a lost cause.

wobble

Dear cameo-d,

thank you for this thread, and your ideas, I am sure you are on the cusp of something great here.

The problem for the majority of those leaving now is that they are faders, because of what Cantleave said.

The problem with being a fader is that you cannot get real closure, you have no true severance with the W.T that you could show in a Court of Law.

A carefully worded legal notice such as you are proposing could accomplish the legal severance whilst restraining the W.T from D.Aing or D.Fing us.

In recent years they have made much of how the legal corporations are not intertwined with the spiritual side, so we should be able to sever legal ties whilst leaving the spiritual side in tact. (not that it is really, but no DA or DF)

Something along the lines of if one remained connected you could be held responsible for what the legal corps. do, and you don't want that.

Knowing their vindictive, hateful nature they will probably institute a way to DA us that is defined under some "New light" soon after, but we could all fight that most effectually I believe.

A huge flood of legal notices would soon be talked about amongst the R&F witlesses too,it may make some begin to think.

cameo-d

Just to show, as example, the personal powers you may have given to your "church" as a member:

the following is quoted from this website: http://www.kjbbc.org/articles_of_faith.php

quote:

4. OFFICERS WITH POWER OF ATTORNEY:
The following officers shall have the power of attorney for the King James Bible Baptist Church. Power of Attorney may only be exercised by a minimum of two officers as listed below, in concert with proper congregational approval beforehand.

A.) The Bishop
B.). One Deacon elected from the Deacons by the Deacons and Pastor.
C.) In the event of there being only one Deacon, he shall have the power of attorney.
D.) In the event there are no Deacons, the Church Treasurer-Financial Secretary may qualify for power of attorney.
end quote
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If you have time that website is well worth the read to understand that other some other churches also have tight regulations. Some churches will expel you if you fail to contribute financially.
This is actually a legal entanglement. What you pay is called, in legal terms "consideration". And what you get for this pay, tithe, "consideration" are the benefits of being "shepherded".
Here's an example from the same website cited above:
quote:
3. INACTIVE MEMBERS:
A person shall be declared inactive who shall absent himself from the services of the church for more than four consecutive weeks or refuse to contribute to its financial support continually without sufficient cause. The Pastor shall cause the church secretary to remove the names from the active roll and place the names on he inactive roll of the church. Such persons may be restored to the active membership provided they renew their covenant obligations to the satisfaction of the Pastor and Deacons. Inactive members will have no vote or voice in church decisions. A twelve month period of unjustified activity will be treated as a formal resignation.
end quote

brotherdan

Do you know what I respect most about you cameo-d? You belong to this site despite not being a witness. You are helping a group of people that are victims of something that you were not a victim of. That would be hard for me to do. It would be like me belonging to an ex mormon group.

That being said, I think it's noble of you being here and I for one appreciate your point of view on things. You have a different frame of reference than those that HAVE been JWs before, and so you are able to share something a little different.

I just wanted to make sure you know that there are people that are VERY happy that you are here!

A You a Ward of the Watch Tower?

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