Evidence! How did you come to know reality? (page 7)

agonus

I'm inclined to agree with tec on this one. For me the very fact that we can conceive of the idea of the inconceivable, even though we can't quantify it, is an implication that the inconceivable may well be very probable.

notverylikely

But we also can't just 'poof' imagine something outside of our realm of existence/experience. If a spiritual world does not exist in some form or another, then I don't see how we could have conceived of it to begin with.

Tec, using that logic, God also CAN'T exist because otherwise people couldn't conceive of a universe where he doesn't. Aliens also MUST exist because we can conceive of them. And they must also NOT exist for the reason I state above about god. Mermaids, ditto. Sasquatch, ditto.

PSacramento

Ok, Reality:

1. the state or quality of being real. 2. resemblance to what is real. 3. a real thing or fact. 4. real things, facts, or events taken as a whole; state of affairs: the reality of the business world; vacationing to escape reality. 5. Philosophy . a. something that exists independently of ideas concerning it. b. something that exists independently of all other things and from which all other things derive. 6. something that is real. 7. something that constitutes a real or actual thing, as distinguished from something that is merely apparent. and:

1.	the state of things as they are or appear to be, rather than as one might wish them to be
2.	something that is real
3.	the state of being real
4.	philosophy
	a. that which exists, independent of human awareness
	b. See also conceptualism Compare appearance the totality of facts as they are independent of human awareness of them
5.	in reality actually; in fact

PSacramento

Damn formatting !!!

cult classic

If a spiritual world does not exist in some form or another, then I don't see how we could have conceived of it to begin with.

I don't know about that one Tammy. We've conceived of all sorts of things that hadn't existed previously and/or that don't exist now. Inventions fall under that category and so do cartoons.

Also evidence and proof are the same thing per the dictionary.

I often disagree with most of what you say but for some reason I like reading your posts.

edited: I shouldn't say "often". Just on the whole bible/faith topics. I am interested to a degree because I used to consider myself "faithful".

agonus

"Inventions" are the product of ingenuity applied to natural materials that were always right there under our feet. We invented the cotton GIN, not cotton.

Same with cartoons. Ingenuity applied creatively to things that appear in nature. Leela from Futurama - nothing new. There have been one-eyed creatures since the beginning of time, just nowhere near as sexy.

Everything that's ever existed, illusion or not, is a shadow of something else casting the shadow. Infinite regress is unavoidable no matter which train you jump on.

The point is, no use belittling people for believing in something you acknowledge is unquantifiable, so long as it does not harm others. Matter of fact, if it ultimately benefits yourself, and possibly others, better off believing it!

Bob Ross' happy little trees were, in his own words, "nothing but games of illusion". But I'm convinced that if everybody would take an hour or two out of the day to watch the guy paint the world would be a little bit better place. Vocal crack, that guy was.

notverylikely

"Inventions" are the product of ingenuity applied to natural materials that were always right there under our feet. We invented the cotton GIN, not cotton.

Not always, and even if they were, so? They were used to valid ideas that, prior to the validation, were considered by many to be inconceivable. Gallileo, for instance.

Einstein invented an entire new branch of physics that basically said "everything you know is wrong".

Same with cartoons. Ingenuity applied creatively to things that appear in nature. Leela from Futurama - nothing new. There have been one-eyed creatures since the beginning of time, just nowhere near as sexy.

Exactly. Creativity applied to things you see. "We ignorant sheepherders and desert people don't know why the mountains shake and spew forth fire and smoke. There must be someone living in there."

Or, you know, later we could discover the earth isn't as solid as it seems.

Everything that's ever existed, illusion or not, is a shadow of something else casting the shadow. Infinite regress is unavoidable no matter which train you jump on.

So if you think god existed and you think everything came from something else, where did God come from?

The point is, no use belittling people for believing in something you acknowledge is unquantifiable, so long as it does not harm others. Matter of fact, if it ultimately benefits yourself, and possibly others, better off believing it!

The problem with an argument like that is that it cuts both ways. Be careful how you wield it :)

Nowman

I know reality thru experience. Thats it.

tec

Sorry, everyone, I've been packing. And now I'm going for a five hour drive with the kids to see family and a friend. Will be back Monday. There's a lot of good threads these past couple days, I'll be catching up when I get back for SURE! And explain my position a little more too :)

Oh, and thanks Cult Classic. I understand what you're saying, and I wouldn't want anyone to agree with what I'm saying just to agree with it anyway. Who am I? I make mistakes all the time.

Test, test, always test - against knowledge, against love, and if you do have faith in Christ - against the things he said.

Love you guys, see you soon.

Tammy (oh, and I wouldn't mind a few prayers sent my way for a safe drive, for those of you who pray )

edited to add: And just for Terry, (with love) I will be sure to practice safe and responsible driving, as well as pray for help with that.

cult classic

Have a safe and fun trip Tammy. Those are my positive words and vibes sent out into the universe for you.

Evidence! How did you come to know reality?

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