How to identify the quality of FAITH and BELIEF by its uses

by Terry 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tec

  Christians and religious people aren't the only caring and charitable people. No, really.

  I know that, Terry. I have seen it, and I have heard it on this board. But these Christian people are acting on their love for Christ, and fellow man. So they're not passive, as you implied.

  (I'm wearing Tammy's patience down....I can feel it....)

  Did you detect a wee bit of sarcasm in my earlier reply? I'm sorry. I felt bad about it afterward, especially thinking of all the many other ways that I could have made the same point with more kindness and less sarcasm.

  *tammy firmly buckles patience for terry back in place :)*

  Tammy
• 

  agonus

  Well I'm bitter and shallow but I still try to have an open mind.

  What about faith in human nature, Terry? Or faith in science? (Faith in science? NEVAAAAAAH!!!)

  I think perhaps you're subscribing to a sort of orthodoxy as well. "Appeal to mysticism" I think does not fit in with the rest of the "spackle" in that the rest of them apply logical fallacies, whereas "appeal to mysticism" isn't really an argument per se. There is room in my universe for unquantifiables. Science delivers SOME of the goods... but not all of them. Science has its limits. It has yet to solve the fundamental problems of humanity - war, starvation, disease, etc. Will it? That's a matter of (gasp) faith, no? One that you no doubt hope for, as do I? And what if faith... DUN DUN DUN... (don't hit me please)... makes you a... better person? Perhaps you've never had a mystical experience. That's fine. Many have not. But does that automatically rule out the possibility that, for those who have, there may be something to said experiences that cannot be quantified? I've never seen an extraterrestrial, but I don't rule out the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

  Do you enjoy art galleries? Science fiction films? A world in which hard science and cold rationalism rule people's worldview would not, in my opinion, be a very fun place to live. Hell, in a lot of respects it'd be a lot like the Watchtower!

  Did you see "The Invention of Lying"? Some very funny moments, but it made me think - and ultimately come to an ironic conclusion: Whatever Gervais' intention was (an atheistic message movie or nothing more than an interesting comedic premise), I realized something: There is really no scientific or logical reason that you and I do NOT in fact inhabit a drab, unimaginative, literalistic world presented in the film...

  and yet..

  somehow...

  we live in a world with both ugliness and beauty, cynicism and wonder.

  Why?

  And aren't we ultimately better off for it?

  This is what the dreaded F-word means to me.

  (Slides soapbox back to Terry)
• 

  agonus

  tec,

  People lose patience with my egotistical rants as well. 'Tis alright.

  Not that Terry's egotistical.

  Or ranting.

  Or wrong.

  Ever.

  AND NEITHER AM I, MEATBAGS!
• 

  agonus

  Terry,

  What do you gain from wearing poor Tammy's patience down, schweinhundt?

  Grow a pair and deflate my pomposity, sir!
• 

  sabastious

  Agonus, faith in science is so different than faith in a religious belief system it's comparing apples to oranges.

  -Sab
• 

  sabastious

  Science is predictible, religious faith iS RIDDELED in superstition! Sure there are some genuine religionists out there that have open minds and open eyes to what they believe, but they are hard to find and do not have a loud enough voice to overtake the religious bigots that occupy most of the religion population (or at least the most influential).

  -Sab
• 

  agonus

  It's a different KIND of faith, to be sure, but it's faith nonetheless. It may not be a "superstitious" faith, but I don't think faith in an intelligence/power greater than oneself is by definition "superstitious". Some would argue fear of destruction by, say, global warming is more superstition than science. Remember, the science of yesteryear is considered laughable today... Moore's Law and all that. Still, science as the salvation of the human race is not quite a fact yet. May never be. Probably not in my lifetime, so what do I really have to lose by keeping an open mind to the spiritual?

  Boy, our phlegmatic Terry is taking a long time to hock his intellectual loogie on me. Must be brewing a big one. I'm sure it'll be worth it.
• 

  agonus

  Changes in scientific understanding are ALSO predictable. A simple faith in something greater than yourself that may be of a supernatural nature... well, that simple faith hasn't changed a whole hell of a lot since we started to walk upright. And it's seen us through some pretty rough shit for several thousand years. Sounds fairly predictable to me as well.
• 

  agonus

  Counselor?!

  COUNSELOR!!

  Come out, come out, where-evah you are!
• 

  Quentin

  "You've got me pegged! Bitter and shallow! Ask any of my family and friends--they'll tell you!"...( Terry )

  The jig is up!! Heh...heh...heh....Oh brother........turn 180, walk that way, there you will find Terry...